Noob looking for breeding advice...

[J.V.]

Hi,

I'm new to chicken keeping (getting my first girls this week), but have read lots and prepared well I hope... but I already know I'm going to quickly go over the top with it - I can't wait

I'm only keeping for eggs this year, but in the meantime preparing to raise my own next year - both as additional layers and a good number for the table.

I have quite a few books, but the content is rather similar from one to another - they cover the basics of hatching and raising chicks, and I've been on a 'hatch to dispatch' course, but the one thing I don't really understand is the best way (or ways) to maintain my own garden flock of, say, a dozen or so layers, so that I don't need to keep buying new stock (or at least keep this to a minimum).

I want to make sure I keep a healthy flock but none of the books I have talk about genetics and what to breed and what not to breed. Can anyone offer some advice on the best way to approach this, or recommend some suitable texts? How do you experienced keepers maintain your flocks?

Thanks in advance,

JV

[petal]

where do I start? i will hunt a couple of books for you from my shelf that have been useful in the past. Also, join a poultry specialist forum.

[J.V.]

Thanks

JV

[RichmondHens]

Enjoy keeping your layers for a while before getting too excited about hatching your own. Managing broody hens, incubators, cockerels, lots of chicks etc is a lot more work than just a small flock of laying hens. Don't run before you can walk.

[J.V.]

Err, that was exactly the plan. Thankfully, I have plenty of free time to look after my birds. But while I'm keeping my layers, I might as well prepare properly for the next stage...

[chris]

It sounds like you're already prepared to do the deed, but ~75% of your hatch can be boys - if you have neighbours it may be worth explaining your plans to them? My hens are noisey, and at times they're up from 4am squawking like mad.

If you don't want to deal with the hatching the first time around, you could always buy in some day olds if you've the facilities to care for them (heat, time, equipment).

Also have a think about being able to rotate runs/enclosure space so the ground doens't get soiled and then capped off. Being able to rest the ground between each "season" would be good

[chris]

Oh, and perhaps tuition on how to dispatch so you can do it quickly and cleanly would be a good thing to look into?

[J.V.]

Thanks for the advice Chris.

The 'hatch to dispatch' course I mentioned, included not just a demonstration of humane dispatch, but also a chance to do so myself. I must admit that it saddened me greatly - it was such a beautiful creature - but I had already decided that if I could not bring myself to do it, I would come back vegetarian (my wife was rather worried!)... the deed was done and the bird roasted later that week. At least it was well looked after whilst alive – and indeed lived about 16 weeks longer than a shop bird. Even if I didn’t want to raise birds for meat I’m glad I learnt how to dispatch properly in case I find one of my birds suffering.

As for neighbours, I am lucky to have nobody too close... the nearest is probably 80 yards or so away from the chickens. Plus we’re surrounded by lakes – the wild population of ducks and geese seem to have a party in the middle of the night most days so we’re used to the noise

As for rotating the land, that would be ideal, but I’m not sure how much room is really needed – I certainly want the birds to have plenty of space. At the moment, I have fenced off an area of roughly 40’ by 36’...???

cheers,
JV

[chris]

Ah, I missed that you mentioned a course.

Are they going to be enclosed, or is the area fenced off for them to roam about in? I have mine in a separate garden, so can't really advise on the area you've quoted in terms of numbers.

Another thing to mention is foxes/badgers - if you have them about then you'll need to be vigilant if they're not enclosed. Either use of electric fence/tape, or shut them away in a secure coop. I have foxes about often - so I built a walk in run in a bit of an odd shape of garden on a thick concrete base with weldmesh, and a coop out of 18mm ply.

A cockerel compared to a duck is erm.. deafening We've a farm about 3 miles away as the crow flies, and I can hear the cockerel crow when I'm outside in the garden (as can my birds - which sets them off squawking and going mad). I'd go to a breeder and hear for yourself what they're like when 2 or 3 boys are crowing to compete with each other! My old allotment site had about 10 cocks on a plot... it got on my nerves when I was working there as they were constantly crowing - so I'd probably mention it to your neighbours, eggs/an oven ready bird would probably soften them up a bit. It's nice that you have that sort of space between your houses, but it's still reasonably close in terms of noise penetration of a lad crowing his heart out

I've only a couple years of hen keeping experience - you'd do well to head advice from RH above, as she keeps birds for a living (I believe).

As petal said, specialist poultry forums have numerous threads about your plans if you've not checked them out yet?

[J.V.]

Hmm, a lot to think about...

We have a lot of foxes here too - in the garden every night I reckon, whether after rabbits or wild birds, and I often come across some remains. I've also seen a badger waddling up our drive. I must admit that tales of devastation caused by foxes, even when people have high fences and seemingly secure coops put me off keeping chickens until I could build my prison camp...

Initially I put up a 2m fence around part of my garden to protect the fruit and veggies from rabbits and deer (dug about 2ft into the ground) - not a lot survives otherwise - what the rabbits don't eat, the deer will have a go at I've since added an overhang on the outside and electric cables running along the overhang and at sniff level.

As I built up the garden I soon realised that I had allocated too much space for veg, so had enough left for the chicken enclosure (edit: this is the 40' x 36' bit) - this only has a 4ft fence. Inside the enclosure is a coop with an attached run, which is pretty secure in itself. I reckon Mr fox will have to stick to rabbits and wild birds... at least I hope so!

cheers,
JV

[RichmondHens]

What you would have to do is divide the whole chicken area into three parts - one for layers, one for meat birds and a small rearing area for chicks (ideally a grass patch with room to move a broody coop about on a daily basis and which doesn't get used by chickens at any other time in order to keep the ground "sweet".

Chris' point about noise and neighbours is definitely worth considering. Cocks crow to state their territory and if you keep more than one they will always be competing. They do have phases of crowing - mine do it first thing when let out, middle of the day, and again about tea time, the rest of the time they are relatively quiet. But I have to say the noise of a dozen or more cocks crowing just a few yards away can be staggering.

Another good point from Chris is buying in day olds to grow on thus saving you the hatching bother (and the need for a cock), but you would still need heat and brooder as a basic requirement, moving onto a larger coop as they grow.

Raising chickens for meat is more expensive than you think. My free rangers cost a minimum of £8 per bird to raise over a 6 month period, and that's just for feed. Then you have all the other costs on top - bedding, medication etc.

These are just a few things to consider. Enjoy your first chickens and that very important first freshly laid egg!

[petal]

i think the gail damerow books are good- try amazon- there are so many aspects involved in rearing chickens that you have to take it slowly and collate loads of reading material. create a first aid kit too.

[Hilary B]

If you absolutely are sure about breeding replacement layers as well as meat chicks, you need to keep adults for 2 years, and hatch some bought-in eggs (plus rear to eating/laying stage) before you even make plans, the ONLY thing you should consider doing towards this at an earlier stage is deciding on a pure breed, which should be one of the old-fashioned dual-purpose types, such as RiR, Light Sussex or Marans. You do NOT want to try to perpetuate home-bred hens from hybrids.
The principles of good breeding practice are the same for any species, outlines below as applicable to hens!
Once you have a significant amount of experience of hen keeping (2 years really isn't enough, it's just a warm-up) the way ahead is to choose your very best hens and buy an unrelated cockerel of the same breed.
For a few years, you simply continue to breed from the same parents, and try to learn how to select the best daughters that you hatch from them.
Once the first generation parents are 'past it', you buy a new cockerel (again unrelated) and put him with the best daughters from the previous years.
Have I put you off the plan yet? Doing it right is a long business, with a fair amount of heartache (you WILL get fond of all the ones you shouldn't keep, and you WILL lose ones that you have grown to appreciate) and no guarantee of much success.

[J.V.]

Thanks very much for the advice all

RH - Regarding costs, I got exactly the same figure from the lady I bought my first birds from last week, so I don't doubt that that is a good estimate. On the other hand, it costs even more for an organic chicken from the supermarket so it's not really a problem.

petal - thanks, I'll check them out

Hilary - thanks for the advice. I'm on board with the breeds - I've already picked RIR, Light Sussex and Barnevelders as likely contenders... I'll be keeping a mixed bag of these just for eggs for a while anyway.

Nah, not put off the plan yet I've been considering it for several years already - I never do something like this without making sure I can dedicate enough resources to doing it properly - I even spent two years planning my veggie patch (that's a bit sad, though, to be fair)! On the other hand, I never seem to be able to keep my projects small scale... :/

cheers,
JV

[RedThorn]

I know what you mean. We almost bought a 23 acres plot wirh 4300 fre range girls a couple of weeks ago. Unfortunetly the business numbers didn't stack up.