Mycoplasma?

[jessmorris]

Hi there chook keepers,
just a quickie...I have a young cockerel who developed a gummy eye (like conjunctivitus but with some bubbles) and a slight wheeze (4 days after a show). The vet thought it was prob mycoplasma and prescribed eye ointment and antibiotic tabs for him, and I have isolated him from the flock, indoors. Now a new pullet (had her a month) has developed quite a rattly chest/throat but her eye is fine. She is also underweight (sharp keel bone) despite having being wormed. She was a bit breathy when I first got her but it was only just discernable so I thought she might just be breathing hard after being caught and examined. My question is, do you think she got mycoplasma too? And can I keep them together in a big dog crate in the kitchen? Sounds mean but she's not very sick (she's not hunched, mopey or quiet) and I don't really want another £40 bill and trip to vets.
Thanks,
C

[RichmondHens]

Sounds likely, myco manifests itself in all sorts of forms. Some get bubbly eyes but no cough, some get snotty noses, some get a cough but no snot or bubbly eyes, they're all different just like us. You would do well to isolate (putting in with cock is fine) and get Tylan into her asap but remember these birds will be carriers for life now so ideally not be bred from.

[jessmorris]

Thanks RH. I didn't know they would be carriers for life, or that this disease travelled through the egg! What a shame - they are the start of my breeding flock.

[nellie-m]

Well, the way I see it - you cannot be sure whether a bird showing no symptoms is a carrier or not. You'd have to have blood samples tested from all your chickens, which is not practical. I am sure I have Mycoplasma in my flock - it is very common and with every new bird you get you can introduce it again unknowingly. I know because after every Newcastle vaccination I get a couple or so of birds that will develop the typical respiratory symptoms and need antibiotics (although that vaccination usually doesn't cause any problems).
Which goes to show that mycoplasma is not always a problem until other factors contribute to weaken the bird's immune system.

You could of course say that if these two birds weren't strong enough to stay (apparently) healthy they shouldn't be bred from. That makes some sense IMO, although perhaps I would give a newly relocated hen some credit. But I have bred from mine for years and years even though I know I have carriers, probably every single bird as they all drank out of the same drinker

PS.
Oh, maybe I should add that two of my girls will be thirteen years old this spring. Not too bad, considering

[RichmondHens]

I agree with what you say Nellie and agree that you can't tell if a symptom free bird is a carrier or not without expensive tests. Yes of course you can breed from an infected bird if the youngsters are to stay within your own flock, but if the intention is to sell on then it not fair to pass on a possible myco carrier to an unwitting buyer. You are then spreading the disease further afield. Most carriers will produce some sort of symptoms under stress so I suppose youngsters could be sold on with the proviso that the seller takes them back if they show snuffles etc within a fortnight but TBH if I turned up to buy a bird and the vendor said to me oh we have had a touch of myco, if the bird shows any symptoms please return it, I would just walk away.

13 is a very good age for a bird, they must be having a lovely life with you. My oldest will be 10 this year.

[jessmorris]

Thanks both. Its a tricky one isn't it because mycoplasma is around us all the time, especially in wild bird populations. I guess none of us know which birds have it or not until they dvelop symptoms so we could be passing it on unwittingly anyway. Not that this is any excuse for passing it on wittingly. I have culled the pullet and will see how the cockerel does (I've also asked the vet for some Tylan as Clinacin doesn't seem to do any good at all). I don't think he will make it.Sigh.

[nellie-m]

Oh I'm sorry to hear that, Jess
I hate it when these things happen...
but experience tells me it's often the most sensible thing to do.

Not that I listen.
Somehow I just have to give it a try first before... <sigh>

[petal]

Jess , you did the right thing.

[jessmorris]

Sigh. Experience is starting to tell me that if poultry get a disease there's no point taking them to the vet. Firstly they'll prescribe ineffective/the wrong drugs and secondly the birds die anyway. I've had nothing recover from disease. HOWEVER (there is good news too), I've had poultry with horrendous physical damage from fighting or from cat/dog attacks (pecking down to the skull in an area over a cm square, huge tear in the skin on one side that had begun to suppurate), which have all healed with the mimimum of fuss - irrigation with hibiscrub, possibly some antibiotics, I can't quite remember.
This boy is off his legs now, the vet never got back to me about precsribing him some Tylan, so he'll have to go. I can't believe it, he won first prize at a show on the 11th and looked beautiful.

[RichmondHens]

Oh I'm so sorry to hear the bad news. Did he go downhill soon after showing? All I can think is he already had myco in his system and the stress of showing brought it out, or he picked it up from the show.

Our vet is actually very good with birds and also keeps her own poultry. I think finding a good poultry vet is partly due to luck and partly due to where you live. In an urban area it's more likely that the vets will be unused to seeing much poultry and may not feel the need to train in avian medicine, whereas in the countryside there is a lot of poultry about. We have access to farm vet practices, plus the small animal practices tend to see birds as well. I have taken chickens, turkeys and a goose to our vet, and apparently they had a peacock in there recently too!

[nellie-m]

RH is right, it's really worth looking for a vet who has some experience with poultry, even if that means you have to drive a bit.

Jess - I agree that by the time you notice a chicken is ill, it is often (not always) too late for that bird. However, it sometimes does make sense to take them to a vet - to take a swab or/and to make a post mortem - so that you can save the rest of the flock.

I have found that Enrofloxacin (Baytril) is often very helpful in respiratory diseases. I always try to have some in the house, and before I cull a bird, it usually gets isolated and a couple of days of treatment. If it helps, they get significantly better quickly, often after less than 24 hours. If they continue to go down, or if they aren't better by the end of the second day, I let them go.

I am more afraid of diarrhoea in a chicken. It can have so many causes... I saved quite a few sneezing ones, but almost never one with diarrhoea.

And I don't show my birds anymore. Even if it's "only" lice that you bring home as a souvenir, it's not worth the risk for me.

[nellie-m]

13 is a very good age for a bird, they must be having a lovely life with you. My oldest will be 10 this year.

They're banties, RH
Not all get that old, but they have more of a chance that a standard sized one. If yours are a large breed, you can be very proud of them indeed!

[jessmorris]

Hi Nellie,
I thought I had found a good poultry vet - he was vice pres of the poultry club! Its a rural-ish practice with farm vets, export vets and small animal vets, I don't use the town vets where I take my dogs. The vet who does post mortems for me is very good, but he's a 3 hour drive away!

I also don't know how you get taken seriously by a vet. I'm sure they wouldn't take any notice of my suggestions for Tylan or Baytril to sort this infection out, and you can't buy it without a prescription. So I have to use what they recommend. Its all wrong, and thank heavens for the National Health Service - can you imagine have to go through this hit and miss approach for your relatives?!

Rooster is better off his antibiotics and back on his legs but still quiet and drinking loads as hes till has diarhoea, which is what will probably carry him off. He's more active but I think it'll be 40:60 he survives. If he gets worse he will have to go.

C

[petal]

The antibiotics can make the runs worse, I have a feeling he has picked something up from the show. notify the show secretary so others can be warned. I really hope he recovers. Did you keep him separate from your others? If we show we isolate for a week to make sure they havn't brought something back?

[jessmorris]

Yes, the antibiotic Clinacin is what started his diarrhoea off I think, and loss of appetite. After 3 days I took him off them as he would have starved to death. He was isolated from the flock, at home indoors, with forays outside on sunny days. the vet finally got back to me about Tylan (the other recommended treatment for myco) but he had already died. I just feel that this was a preventable death as he was fine with just conjuntivitus and a slight cough when I took him to the vets. Maybe with the right drug he would have picked up. Anyway, you can drive yourself mad with all the 'what ifs' and 'I wonders' so I'll put it behind me.
The next show is 9th Feb. Lord knows how I can prevent the next bird getting a disease, but at least its one cage, one bird. At the evening show, we only have around 20 cages so birds are in and out of the same cages all night. I've bought some Virkon (nasty stuff) to disinfect everything before and afterhand, but really I need to disnfect the cage before I put him in it (for the evening shows)..
Sigh.