Coughs and colds again

[kathyd]

Hi. One of my birds gets coughs and colds at the drop of a hat. I've treated them all with something the vet recommeded last time, which contains tetracycline and erythromycine, and is a bright yellow powder. They hate it, and I have problems getting them to eat it (although sardines seem to mask the flavour and taste I've discovered!). However, at the end of the course the original bird is still coughing and sneezing. None of the others has shown any symptoms yet, although they usually do at some point if it drags on long enough. I don't know whether to keep treating them all, keep treating the coughy one, or stop for everyone. I only gave the 'poorly' one a dose yesterday, but I'm wondering if I've done the right thing. Any advice appreciated, as usual .

[RichmondHens]

It sounds like she has a mycoplasma infection, which stays with the bird for life once contracted and symptoms come and go with stress. Just a change in the weather can trigger it. Myco can't be cured, only the symptoms treated. Is this the little bird who seems to have all sorts wrong with it (deformities etc) or am I on the wrong track? If the others are fine at the moment then you could just isolate the sick one and treat her alone. It's unlikely she will ever improve much as she sounds quite a weakling so at some point you have to make a decision about whether to keep her going or not. For the ongoing health of the rest of the birds you would be best rid of the sickly one but I know they are pets for you so it is a hard decision to make.

[kathyd]

It sounds like she has a mycoplasma infection, which stays with the bird for life once contracted and symptoms come and go with stress. Just a change in the weather can trigger it. Myco can't be cured, only the symptoms treated. Is this the little bird who seems to have all sorts wrong with it (deformities etc) or am I on the wrong track? If the others are fine at the moment then you could just isolate the sick one and treat her alone. It's unlikely she will ever improve much as she sounds quite a weakling so at some point you have to make a decision about whether to keep her going or not. For the ongoing health of the rest of the birds you would be best rid of the sickly one but I know they are pets for you so it is a hard decision to make.

Hi RH. Strangely enough it's not the 'special needs' bird no, it's my marran. She's one of the 3 originals I got from the same place as adults, sold as organic chickens. The other 2 both have eggy problems - one frequent soft shells, the other weird shapes - so guessing they may all have suffered an outbreak at some point. You're right when you say my birds are pets, and I've always had a particular soft spot for Dotty marran (she's a real character), so I don't feel like making that hard decision at the moment...

Luckily these 3 adults plus the special needs bird tend to sleep inside the coop, with the other 5 on top, so at least they're separated at night. In the daytime they're mostly outside in the fresh (and currently very bracing!) air, and they barely touch their pellets or drinker at the moment so they're not mingling too closely. Fingers crossed. If I see signs of snuffling in any of the others I'll run another course of treatment straight away and see if we can knock it on the head before it takes hold, and if Dotty gets any worse I'll isolate her as you suggest. In the meantime I'm feeding them scrambled egg using some of those eggs we're not allowed to eat, so I figure they're all getting a tiny dose back that way .

I'm so glad I'm not a professional chicken keeper - I don't know how I'd cope!

[nellie-m]

The other 2 both have eggy problems - one frequent soft shells, the other weird shapes

makes me think of infectious bronchitis....?

In the meantime I'm feeding them scrambled egg using some of those eggs we're not allowed to eat, so I figure they're all getting a tiny dose back that way .

you know what you're breeding that way?
Resistant bacteria.
Beware of underdosing antibiotics. Once you start giving them, you need to give the full cycle, full dose, and it's better to be on the safe side and give it somewhat longer than too short.
You need to give the proper dose, that includes weighing of the bird prior to first treatment, and you need to know the exact dose for that species, i.e. chicken.

I was shocked to find last year that the manufacturer's recommendation for one antibiotic I had to give (forget what it was, but can look it up in my book if you want) had been increased by factor ten!!! When I read your post the thought immediately sprang to mind if you could double-check on the dosage.

If you feed those eggs back to a bird that is getting the treatment anyway, that small dose in the scrambled egg is irrelevant. However, I wouldn't feed it to birds that aren't under treatment, I'd rather throw the eggs away.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for your Dotty - I've got a lovely white Marans too, they are gorgeous birds, hope yours will recover soon!

[kathyd]

Hi nellie-m. I know what you mean about anti-biotics, I'm always a bit wary of them to be honest, for any animals (including us!), not just for chickens. However, I did ask the vet last time about feeding the eggs back to the chickens, and he said it was fine - birds don't have long enough life spans to worry too much about resistant bacteria apparently... So I gave them some, and threw dozens away.

I don't have any realistic way to weigh my hens unfortunately, but the treatment I have for them is based on Xg per kg of food, with a scoop to measure, like Flubenvet. I still have to guess at how much they eat during the day, because they free range and don't eat many pellets, but I'm estimating about a kg between them - 9 birds of varying sizes and ages? Does that sound about right?

[nellie-m]

Hi Kathyd,

Personally, I don't like to give antibiotics in their drinking water (what if the drinker gets tipped over, for example...), and I have never given it in food. I very much prefer injections because a) I know the bird has got exactly the amount it needs, b) it is quick and easy.

These are the steps I usually take if I want to treat a bird:

1. Take it to the vet to have a swab taken. If the bird doesn't get better after the initial treatment , then I know which other antibiotic will help as soon as the result comes. It doesn't cost a fortune and should, in fact, always be done before prescribing any antibiotic to anyone. (The fact that most vets don't take one doesn't mean it's good practice...) Like I said in the mycoplasma thread, for respiratory problems I have often found Enrofloxacin (Baytril) very helpful and it's usually the first we begin treatment with.

2. I take the bird and the antibiotic home, plus syringes and needles. I isolate it so it can rest and also because it is easier to see how much it eats, what it eats, what the poop's like etc.

3. I weigh the bird. This actually isn't hard to do at all. All you need is some sort of kitchen or parcel scale that covers the range of weight of your birds.
The easiest way is to put the chicken in a bag of cloth, and hang the bag onto a hanging scale. I've been looking for a good, affordable one for years without success, though (any hints greatly appreciated).

So what I do is I take the bird off the perch in the evening. I take it to the table with the kitchen scale. I firmly keep hold of its feet - and now that is important: so that the heel joint is stretched!!! - don't ask me why but the legs need to be straight or they won't relax.
And then SLOWLY turn it on its back. Very slowly. Think of slow motion in a video. The more slowly and calmly you handle it, the more cooperative the hen will be. If she starts to flap, never mind, just stop and wait a bit until she calms down again. I would guess a sweet and docile Marans will just be fine. (Some of my nervous banties protest a little at first, but it doesn't help them )
And then you actually lay her on the scales on her back - still holding her feet. And then, again in SLOW motion, you let go of her feet, just for the split second that you need to read the scales. If she starts to flap now, you weren't slow enough! - just grab her feet again and start all over.

Complicated description for an easy procedure

Always remember that you do not hurt the bird in any way. Some actually seem to enjoy lying there - okay, not too many but I had one cockerel who would fall asleep! It reminds them of a sun bath or sand bath sometimes, and they really relax - provided that you do everything extremely slowly.

Now you know the weight. I always weigh all my chickens before I worm or treat them in any way, and also if I want to select breeders because the standard ones shouldn't be too small and the bantams shouldn't be too heavy).

4. When I know the weight, I know how much I need to inject. The first day it is a bit more complicated because of the weighing - I usually don't have a helper so I need to put the bird away first, prepare the injection and then get it again. Then I turn it on its back like before, usually in my lap as I find that easier, and then I give the injection into the breast muscle. That is a pretty foolproof place as there is this big bone plate of the keel bone behind it. If you can imagine doing that, I would suggest that you let your vet show you how to do it once. It is a lot less stressful for the bird than for example trying to get some watery solution into it with a syringe. Prepare injection, get bird out, turn bird, little prick, bird back into cage - two minutes

I can try to make a video on how to weigh a chicken if you like, as soon as I get a round tuit...

Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps a bit. Fingers firmly crossed!

[VirginVegGrower]

Hi Kathyd,

Personally, I don't like to give antibiotics in their drinking water (what if the drinker gets tipped over, for example...), and I have never given it in food. I very much prefer injections because a) I know the bird has got exactly the amount it needs, b) it is quick and easy.

These are the steps I usually take if I want to treat a bird:

1. Take it to the vet to have a swab taken. If the bird doesn't get better after the initial treatment , then I know which other antibiotic will help as soon as the result comes. It doesn't cost a fortune and should, in fact, always be done before prescribing any antibiotic to anyone. (The fact that most vets don't take one doesn't mean it's good practice...) Like I said in the mycoplasma thread, for respiratory problems I have often found Enrofloxacin (Baytril) very helpful and it's usually the first we begin treatment with.

2. I take the bird and the antibiotic home, plus syringes and needles. I isolate it so it can rest and also because it is easier to see how much it eats, what it eats, what the poop's like etc.

3. I weigh the bird. This actually isn't hard to do at all. All you need is some sort of kitchen or parcel scale that covers the range of weight of your birds.
The easiest way is to put the chicken in a bag of cloth, and hang the bag onto a hanging scale. I've been looking for a good, affordable one for years without success, though (any hints greatly appreciated).

So what I do is I take the bird off the perch in the evening. I take it to the table with the kitchen scale. I firmly keep hold of its feet - and now that is important: so that the heel joint is stretched!!! - don't ask me why but the legs need to be straight or they won't relax.
And then SLOWLY turn it on its back. Very slowly. Think of slow motion in a video. The more slowly and calmly you handle it, the more cooperative the hen will be. If she starts to flap, never mind, just stop and wait a bit until she calms down again. I would guess a sweet and docile Marans will just be fine. (Some of my nervous banties protest a little at first, but it doesn't help them )
And then you actually lay her on the scales on her back - still holding her feet. And then, again in SLOW motion, you let go of her feet, just for the split second that you need to read the scales. If she starts to flap now, you weren't slow enough! - just grab her feet again and start all over.

Complicated description for an easy procedure

Always remember that you do not hurt the bird in any way. Some actually seem to enjoy lying there - okay, not too many but I had one cockerel who would fall asleep! It reminds them of a sun bath or sand bath sometimes, and they really relax - provided that you do everything extremely slowly.

Now you know the weight. I always weigh all my chickens before I worm or treat them in any way, and also if I want to select breeders because the standard ones shouldn't be too small and the bantams shouldn't be too heavy).

4. When I know the weight, I know how much I need to inject. The first day it is a bit more complicated because of the weighing - I usually don't have a helper so I need to put the bird away first, prepare the injection and then get it again. Then I turn it on its back like before, usually in my lap as I find that easier, and then I give the injection into the breast muscle. That is a pretty foolproof place as there is this big bone plate of the keel bone behind it. If you can imagine doing that, I would suggest that you let your vet show you how to do it once. It is a lot less stressful for the bird than for example trying to get some watery solution into it with a syringe. Prepare injection, get bird out, turn bird, little prick, bird back into cage - two minutes

I can try to make a video on how to weigh a chicken if you like, as soon as I get a round tuit...

Sorry for the long post. Hope it helps a bit. Fingers firmly crossed!

Travel Luggage Hanging Scale - Weighs Upto 32kg - Superior Quality With Memory Needle & Ergonomic Handle:Amazon:Kitchen & Home

[nellie-m]

Travel Luggage Hanging Scale - Weighs Upto 32kg - Superior Quality With Memory Needle & Ergonomic Handle:Amazon:Kitchen & Home

Hi VVG, thanks for the link - unfortunately I can't see the details very well in the picture but the description says "Weighs upto 32kgs/75lbs"

It is the ideal type of scales but perhaps not the ideal range. One old breeder once showed my his old GDR scales, it weighed up to five or so kilos, in small enough increments so that you could also weigh a young bird. You want at least a 100g accuracy.

I use one like this:
Digitalwaagen-Shop - Handliche Paketwaage Paketwaage Ultraship-55 ultraship-55

2g steps up to one kilo, and then 10g steps upwards. And large enough for most birds, if not, I put a box underneath and set to zero first.

[kathyd]

I'm beginning to hyperventilate here... panic attacks setting in...

I finally learned how to pick my birds up properly thanks to explanations from RH and others on here, and even to turn most of them onto their backs on my knee - except for the maran. She fights like billyo when you try to turn her over, and I no longer attempt it with her I'm afraid. RH told me how to hold her like a rugby ball with her bum in the air for dusting purposes, but that's about as upside down as she tends to get.. Sweet, chatty, friendly (and bossy) she may be, but she's also stubborn, awkward and contrary if she feels like it!

Apart from that, I have a bit of a paranoic fear of needles... I'm one of those who faints when I have to have a blood test etc. So this wouldn't be my chosen way to do things to be honest! So far I've managed to get worming powder into them, plus a liquid and a powder antibiotic, by using foods I know they'll eat. Anything other than that and I'm going to have serious problems, and either have to pay the vet to do it for me, or give my birds away and live my life chickenless...

I don't think we have Baytril or the other one people mention on here all the time over here (Tylan? something like that), so I just have to use what the vets give me. On the plus side, the vets are all really nice, seem quite comfortable with chickens, and almost all of them in the practice speak English pretty well .

If you do ever find time to YouTube a demo of picking up and turning a large bird over, I'd love to see it though - I have a couple of other biggish birds - maran crosses - whom I can usually deal with, but probably in a rather unorthodox way sometimes . Besides, once the 'idea' of doing something scarey has chance to sink in and float around a bit in that empty space I like to call my head, I'm sometimes surprised at the things I decide to have a go at...

[jessmorris]

I wrap my birds (squawky bantams) in a towel like you do a cat, give them the tablet then release them. They seem fine. And it means I dont get scratched or have to deal with flapping wings etc. No good for injections though!

[jessmorris]

PS eggs from birds with Mycoplasma have a specific shape, the blunt end is slightly contrcated like there's a ring around around it, then it swells towards the end again. You can google it.

[kathyd]

I wrap my birds (squawky bantams) in a towel like you do a cat, give them the tablet then release them. They seem fine. And it means I dont get scratched or have to deal with flapping wings etc. No good for injections though!

That's a good idea thanks, I might give that a try

[kathyd]

PS eggs from birds with Mycoplasma have a specific shape, the blunt end is slightly contrcated like there's a ring around around it, then it swells towards the end again. You can google it.

Have looked at some photos, but they didn't really match your description... apparently there are different strains of myco though. Either way, Dotty's eggs aren't normally strange shapes to be honest, and the shell is normally OK. It's the 2 hybrids with strange shape / soft shell problems!

[nellie-m]

I'm beginning to hyperventilate here... panic attacks setting in...

Oh no no - please - take a deep breath! No need to force yourself to anything you can't do

I've never had to wrap up a cat in a towel but yes, that sounds like it could be an easy option, too.
How is Dotty?

[VirginVegGrower]

I'm beginning to hyperventilate here... panic attacks setting in...

I finally learned how to pick my birds up properly thanks to explanations from RH and others on here, and even to turn most of them onto their backs on my knee - except for the maran. She fights like billyo when you try to turn her over, and I no longer attempt it with her I'm afraid. RH told me how to hold her like a rugby ball with her bum in the air for dusting purposes, but that's about as upside down as she tends to get.. Sweet, chatty, friendly (and bossy) she may be, but she's also stubborn, awkward and contrary if she feels like it!

Apart from that, I have a bit of a paranoic fear of needles... I'm one of those who faints when I have to have a blood test etc. So this wouldn't be my chosen way to do things to be honest! So far I've managed to get worming powder into them, plus a liquid and a powder antibiotic, by using foods I know they'll eat. Anything other than that and I'm going to have serious problems, and either have to pay the vet to do it for me, or give my birds away and live my life chickenless...

I don't think we have Baytril or the other one people mention on here all the time over here (Tylan? something like that), so I just have to use what the vets give me. On the plus side, the vets are all really nice, seem quite comfortable with chickens, and almost all of them in the practice speak English pretty well .

If you do ever find time to YouTube a demo of picking up and turning a large bird over, I'd love to see it though - I have a couple of other biggish birds - maran crosses - whom I can usually deal with, but probably in a rather unorthodox way sometimes . Besides, once the 'idea' of doing something scarey has chance to sink in and float around a bit in that empty space I like to call my head, I'm sometimes surprised at the things I decide to have a go at...

Marans are a heavy breed but we used to get ours and I slide my right hand under the body and fingers go either side of the legs, then I hold wings down with a comforting left hand on top. Mr VVG dosed from under my right arm. If only one of you then you could put towel over with left hand, sit down and dose at that point. It's much easier with two though.