Creosote

[Monstaink]

hi all
i'm new to the forum and have already read a lot of threads, some very interesting ones and lots of advice and tips i have already picked up on.
One thing i have noticed is the amount of mention of creosote / creocote, and buying this from B&Q, now i do believe the original creosote is hard to get hold of, and i am a great believer in the old stuff, but for those not in the know, the original creosote from years ago was made from old engine oil.
even to this day whenever i buy creosote, (and i never use B&Q) i still do a 50/50 mix with old engine oil, this can be got free from almost very garage/ mot station.

making this 50/50 mix doesn't weaken the mix in any way strength wise, it mearly saves money in the long run, and makes the modern day stuff more like the old time stuff, which is what kills the redmite more so.

I would be interested in what everyone thinks of this or if anyone else uses anything simillar, i use it and touch wood never had to treat a coop, i use it purely as a wood treatment to prolong the life of the timber.

[Alison]

Wasn't the reason that the mix was changed because it was really nasty stuff. Personally I don't want to be putting engine oil all over the place, especially if it's anywhere hear anything I want to eat.

[Monstaink]

from what i recall it was changed more so because of the smell, it used to linger for weeks after use, as for putting engine oil near anything your going to eat, treat the mix like you would anything let it dry first, although creosote never dries out fully. it is deffinately not harmfull to the chooks, certainly not as harmful as the redmite
as i say i have never had mite and never want them, i treat my coop on a yearly basis just before the summer months, (may ish time) and have a clear year

[Floyd]

I've come across this mixing with oil idea before, in fact my Grandad used to just paint his sheds with old oil alone. It's probably fine for outhouses and fencing that doesn't have any contact with plants or animals I'd guess, though I wouldn't be tempted to use it on a chicken coop personally.

[Monstaink]

creosote is made from old engine oil, and yes as your grandad used to do so did mine and i have used pure oil in the past but i tend to use the 50/50 mix, it darkens the creosote down a little, and cuts on the expense, where plants are concerned and your grandad was probs the same splash it on it don't hurt a thing, my grandad used to really lay it down on his fence every year, and the veg used to still grow right up to the fence and never tasted of anything it shouldn't.

you read thread after thread on using creosote/creocote on coops, now the stuff you buy nowadays is like water in comparison to the older stuff but the main ingredient is still old oil, just with more additives in it to loose a lot of the smell and water it down more, and doesn't cover pint for pint as much as the older stuff

i know i use it and i know i'll keep on using it, i have no mite, and unless i do get mites i have no reason to change, my hens do well, and i get a good egg lay out of them so they must be happy, i can understand peoples reasons for not wanting to use things next to plants and animals, but do we all know what we are using in anything we do buy. creosote being made from old oil is something that i learned back in the 80's when i was working in kent, and all the old oil went to the making of from the garage. it was asking the question as to what it was collected for that i found out, the guy told me quite a bit of what they do with it creosote then being one of the main things.

[Floyd]

CREOCOTE TIMBER TREATMENT LIGHT/DARK/BLACK SECTION 1: IDENTIFICATION OF SUBSTANCE/PREPARATION & COMPANY
Product/Material: CREOCOTE Product Description: A complex mixture of hydrocarbons oils. Supplier: R. K. & J. Jones Ltd Address: Southery Road Feltwell, Thetford Norfolk, IP26 4EH Emergency Telephone No(UK): 01842 828101 Fax number: 01842 828171
SECTION 2: COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
Name EC No. CAS No. Content Classification Ingredients EC No. CAS No. Content Classification Solvent naptha (petroleum)heavy aromatic Diphenyl 1,2,4-trimethylbenzene
Dicyclopentadiene
Napthalene
265-198-5
202-163-5 202-436-9
201-052-9
202-049-5
64742-94-5
92-52-4 95-63-6
77-73-6
91-20-3
0-40% w/w
0-12% w/w 0-5% w/w
0-5% w/w
0-5% w/w
Xn;R65 Xi,R36/37/38,
N; R51/53 Carc. Cat. 3; R40 Vacuum gas oil 265-049-4 64741-49-7 60-100% w/w Xn;R65 R66 N;51/53 Bitumen 232-490-9 8052-42-4 0-10% w/w N/A
SECTION 3: HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION
Health: Harmful, May Cause Lung Damage if swallowed. Irritating to eyes, skin and respiratory system. Main Hazard: Dangerous for the environment. Environment: Toxic to aquatic organisms, may cause long-term adverse effects in the aquatic environment.

Looks like we haven't progressed too far eh?

[Monstaink]

google is a wonderful tool, contains gas oil and bitumen, and what is bitumen oh yeah old engine oil, need i say more.

says nothing about harmfull to poultry mind, or plantlife, just to aquatics, and i'm sure no one is going to creosote a fish pond

[MartinRSharpe]

and what is bitumen oh yeah old engine oil

No it isnt.

Bitumen is a tar like substance, used to make Tarmac/Asphalt.
Engine oil is a mixture of various distillates of petroleum plus additives etc

Creosote was a distillate of coal or wood tar. The wood tar stuff was mainly used in preserving food (indirectly in smoking) the coal tar one was the one used as a wood preservative.

The original coal tar creosote is still in use today but is restricted due to its carcinogenic properties of the vapours and the dangerous levels it can leach into the surrounding soil.

[alldigging]

The guy at creocote told me he wouldn't use it anywhere near his veggies. Although he reckoned it doesn't travel far through the ground when it leaches off wood.

Someone on our site told someone he mixes creocote with old engine oil still.

[SimonWhitaker]

Not sure for veggies but my grandad had a commercial deep litter hen farm and every shed was dosed in creosote every year, never had any problems with the chickens and it was common practice throughout the industry.

As mentioned it was felt it kept mites to a minimum which used to be a real problem. Along with a regular jeys fluid wash that's all they got. I guess like everything times change and people become more aware of dangers etc! All I can say is we still have hens in some of the same cabins 90 years later and they are still going strong! Everything in moderation I guess!

[alldigging]

Does it kill plants?

[Monstaink]

sorry i do stand corrected yes bitumen is a derivative of coal and used in asphalt/tarmacadum but mix this with engine oil and u get a brill creosote

[SimonWhitaker]

It does kill plants it's used to treat tree stumps to stop re growth will kill anything it comes in direct contact with

[alldigging]

Well in that case I know why someone's plot looks quite barren ...

[Bill HH]

My father had 20,000 rhode Island reds for breeding. All the sheds held 180 birds and were 20ft x 10ft. Every year we creosoted them inside and out (styrup pump) I am still alive (65) yet I must have breathed in 100 gallons of the stuff. The sheds just never rotted, in fact the nails rotted before the wood and we had to renail them occasionaly. We only had red mite once and sprayed the pens with parrafin, it took two applicatins but did the job.

Bill