Really worried about worms...

[kathyd]

Hi

Two things have happened recently / simultaneously which have got me quite worried - hopefully you can give me some advice.

1. A friend was talking to me about her birds which have all suffered bad worm attacks, and she described the red bits you see in their chicken poo sometimes, and said it was gapeworms. Until then I'd always assumed, as she had previously, that those red bits were intestinal linings being shed eg as they come back into lay, and possibly at other times eg moulting.

2. One of my birds poo'd on my knee as I was creaming her leg, and I noticed it move...

Luckily I'd just brought Flubenvet (1%) back from the UK ready to start an autumn worming session, so I wormed them all immediately, finishing on Monday this week. For a couple of days I did see less red bits in their poo, but today I found an increase again, both in the adults' and the chicks' (now about 14 weeks old).

So... are the red bits most likely worms? If so, why didn't the Flubenvet kill them off? I'm concerned that they're still so visible after a full course of treatment?

I know I need to worm the birds again after 3 weeks anyway, just to make sure, but is it OK to leave it that long if they're all still infested? And if they're still infested now, does that mean a further treatment after yet another 3 weeks?

Does this suggest Flubenvet isn't working for us any more and I'd be better off getting something different from our local vet's?

Thanks for any advice.

Kate

[Nicos]

I've never seen worms so I can't really help you, but the powder I sent you was 2.5%...... Have you given your gals a higher dose now that you are using 1%?

I could only find 1% this time, so I'm interested to know how well it works?

[kathyd]

Hi Nicos

I just follow the instructions on the pack as best I can - I think it says 6g for 2kg of food, so I give them one level 6g spoon between them all each day.. that's currently for 7 adults, 3 14 week old cockerels (largish) and one 14 week old female, and 3 fairly chunky ducks which seem much more meaty than the chickens. It's what I've always done, more or less, and I'm not aware that I've had this problem before - but then again maybe I have, and I've just not recognised it. So until today I would've said the 1% is fine, now I just don't know, sorry . I'm certainly not worried that I'm overdosing them anyway, since it's so much less strong than the original powder you sent me.

[Scarlet]

Hi Kathy, stop worrying, you done everything right. Gape worms are the only red worm. The red stuff that they are shedding could well be gape worms but I think they will probably be dead. Scoop up the fresh poo in a jam jar, half filled with water, it should separate and you will be able to see more clearly.
Gape worm eggs are usually coughed up, and you originally said that you saw a wriggler in their poo - that was white? If so that wasn't gape worm. Have you seen any of them stretching their necks, shaking their heads, it can also cause noisy breathing. I'm sure you would have noticed this.
If you have a bad infestation it is wise to rotate your ground. I know you've said previously that you let them free range but it is good practice to give them fresh ground every six months. Liming the second half. This should stop/reduce the worm cycle. I use a 50m fench and swap their area through the winter.

[kathyd]

Hi Scarlet

The wriggle in the poo was just a wriggle I'm afraid - I didn't probe to see what colour it was! I've not seen any other worms wriggling since then, but I have found red bits in various poos, including the chicks'. Having said that, the birds all seem happier now, so hopefully everything's dead as you suggest. I'll do the jam jar test tomorrow. Oh what fun we chicken keepers have! I did see 2 of the young cockerels do that thing where they open their beaks and stretch their necks a while ago, but just the one time each I think and just briefly, when they were eating, and they're such greedy pigs they could have just been choking themselves I guess. No head shaking, no raspy breathing or other obvious signs fortunately.

Fresh ground.. hmm. Some areas do get naturally 'rested' at certain times, eg the veggie garden from early spring until autumn, but I don't think I could lime it because it's where I grow our food! It's also the drain field for the septic tank, so definitely a no-no (no, the veggies aren't mixed up with the septic tank contents, don't panic!). I'll have a think about it and see what I can come up with, thanks.

[Nicos]

I hope this will soon be sorted for you- you really do seem to have had more than your fair share problems over the years. xx

[Scarlet]

You can use gardeners lime Kathy, but the chickens can't go on it when it's being limed. Ground that is constantly being used by chickens can get 'sick'. The worms become a viscous circle, especially as you've seen some wrigglers.

If they had gape worm I'm sure you would have noticed the neck stretching more than once. Try not to feed them from the ground. Make sure all food is given in feeders. Do you use apple cider vinegar?

On another subject - you've got a lot of boys, what are you going to do with them?

[Bill HH]

All this talk of worms has me confused, we had 20 acres with up to 10,000 poultry on it and I never heard my dad mention worms once, we had no de wormers and prize winning stock. this was from 1930 to 1970. have worms become a problem recently? ours seemed to live quite happily with them.

[Scarlet]

I was still a toddler in the 70's Bill so I wouldn't know but certainly the time when I first had chickens I was told to worm them.

[Bill HH]

I was still a toddler in the 70's Bill so I wouldn't know but certainly the time when I first had chickens I was told to worm them.

I am sure that is good advice, maybe worms are more common now or maybe ours had such a range that worms were not a problem. It just didnt feature in our management, even those kept on deep litter didnt suffer. We got plently of other things though, cocidiosis etc and in the end fowl pest.

[kathyd]

Nicos - maybe that's because I'm not making a very good job of looking after them!

Scarlet - I've already re-homed 2 of the boys - a bit early really, but necessary at the time. I have a home lined up for one more after the second lot of worming is finished. I did have a home for the 4th one, but the woman let me down, so at present I'm the proud owner of 2 cockerels, and beginning to worry a bit... I'll keep one here, but am anticipating problems because he'll be a large bird and I have 3 quite small hens amongst my flock. I'm just hoping he's gay . There are other avenues I can try if I get desperate, but I'm naively hoping the 2 remaining ones will continue to get along and be friends... At what age do cockerels start to fight??

[Scarlet]

Anytime from around 18weeks onwards although when the girls are off lay they don't fight so much, so you probably won't have to worry until February. It not just the fighting I was thinking of (I often have 2 cockerels in together) it was just that you've got a lot of boys for the amount of girls you have. They get battered and bruised from too much treading.

[Nicos]

Nicos - maybe that's because I'm not making a very good job of looking after them!

You seem to be doing a very caring job with your hens.....waaaay better than most French hens are cared for...hold that thought! ( bet they're glad you are their mommy!)

[kathyd]

Scarlet - I hadn't really thought about that problem to be honest, just the size issue. I don't know what to do with the second one then, I'll have to see if I can find another home for one of them I guess. Better be soon though, they're beginning to develop little personalities now and I won't want to part with them if I get too fond of them .

Nicos - very sweet of you to say so, thanks . People think I'm bonkers of course, even the Brits, but I always wanted to be eccentric so that works for me .

[Scarlet]

Actually I've just read theist above, you've only got 2 young boys and no other boys you will be fine. But if you have small hens (IMO) they don't need the attention. Some of the boys can be pretty brutal. So unless you are keeping them because they are fantastic specimens, be hard and get rid of one. I also find that one cockerel with his own little flock is much calmer and easier to handle.