Growing concerned

[mrgrower]

Hi this is realy the first time posting here in RTR and the first post is for guidance.

Ive been keeping chucks for many years. Never had any worm issues spidermite issues scaly leg issues the only issues ever have always been loose poo's. and one sour crop issues.

and a reoccurring problem of sudden deaths however the last sudden deaths where down to my German shepherd pup and a failure to ensure the run was locked.

The chucks are fine one minute eating drinking mixing I can go out a few hours later the following day and find a chuck dead as is the case this morning. I have had chucks checked by the vet previously and no issues found it's as though they just drop dead one thing I have noticed is that when I find them their bottoms will be wide open exposing their insides I'm assuming that this is just due to the fact he that they have died and the muscles have relaxed everytime the birds die they have all been relatively young birds in fact the one that I found today had been one I bought to replace the two my dog killed

I am aware that one of the chucks has been laying abnormally large eggs resulting in bleeding and am thinking this may have been the bird and that may have caused it's
death in which case there is nothing I could have done and I did notice a large deposit of blood near the nesting box.

I am obviously worried that these sudden deaths may be linked and so thinking should I get rid of the remaining chucks and do a full sterilization? What could lead to a bird being OK one moment then dropping dead the next?

Mr G

[Guest]

Egg bound and or vent prolapse spring to mind. From the cases I have known birds keel over over a period of time not suddenly. Are these young birds? Were any of them laying prior to your vet visit? Also how many chooks have keeled over and over what period out of how many birds? Are they all related/ same breed/parentage? Sorry for all the questions but the more info. the better

[Scarlet]

The chucks are fine one minute eating drinking mixing I can go out a few hours later the following day and find a chuck dead as is the case this morning.

Are you really sure they are fine? Have you got an upto date photo of the ones you have left?
When did you last worm them? Are any of their feather ruffled, to any of them walk funny.
I would agree with NG that a prolapse springs to mind but I very much doubt its happening to all your birds especially as its also happened to a newbie that you've brought in.

I find them their bottoms will be wide open exposing their insides

This doesn't sound right...Have you got any pecking issues in your flock? Any sign of blood and some chickens will peck until the chicken is dead. Have you watched them lately, have you got any bullies?

[mrgrower]

Egg bound and or vent prolapse spring to mind. From the cases I have known birds keel over over a period of time not suddenly. Are these young birds? Were any of them laying prior to your vet visit? Also how many chooks have keeled over and over what period out of how many birds? Are they all related/ same breed/parentage? Sorry for all the questions but the more info. the better

Hi I will try to answer all your questions

1. All birds have been laying as this bird was one of two recently bought as alleged young birds POL Which I am not convinced about I put the double + sized eggs down to new layers so not too concerned

2. If this was a POL Chuck which I'm hesitant to say it was then it would have been less than 8 months old as for all other birds that have just dropped dead I would put them around 2-3 years ISH

3. This bird has not been vet checked but all others that had been vet checked had been laying as was this one ( We had 3 chucks and 3 eggs per day so one off each )

4. We only keep around 3 birds at any time as we only have a small back garden one are has the run attached to the chuck pen next to it is a scratching area of free ground. We have had about 9 birds over the past 4 years there about and we have lost 3 in that time ( Sudden death ) leaving out the recent two the dog got and 1 dead in the 1 years prior as we have been keeping chucks for about 7 years. We had chucks dropping dead before we allowed them onto the free scratch area so I can rule out contamination there.

5. They have all been different breeds we have had Susex's, Rhodeislands, Warrens we still have one of them from that batch the dog got, and we bought two Bluebells I think they are called and it's one of them that has just dropped dead it was fine yesterday went out this morning and its on it's back stiff as a board.

6. The one factor in all of this has been the sloppy poo's and messy behinds however they have had worming treatments and they get some cider vin since we had the others drop dead all basses have been covered even the coverings on the run floor and in the coops have been changed but they still drop dead.

I'm not sure if this chuck had runny poos when we picked her up if asked I'd say no she did'nt so if the sloppy poos are a possible symptom what can be making them healthy one minute and dead the next?

MrG

[mrgrower]

The two remaining birds.

Healthy, Pink floppies the Blue has a slight messy bum but other than that as you can see they are fine I can take some video of them if you need me to?

[mrgrower]

No ruffled feathers No funny walks no bullying there was a bit of scrapping when we first got the Blues from the warren however that has stopped and both blues are / where bigger the Warren. The blood found was related to the egg laying of one of the birds I'm assuming the one that died as there was an egg in the nest box this morning but it was normal size and the other two have since laid.

Wormed two weeks ago and a little cider vinegar in the water last week as is a norm now.

[fishpond]

Are you sure that with the sight of blood the chicken hasn't been killed by the other chickens (or one of them)?
Personally, I would lay off the cv.

[Guest]

If it was me I would speak to the vet and see if I could get some tests done before its to late. From what I have read and seen there is nothing that seems to scream as obvious

[mrgrower]

I can honestly say that I am 97% sure it wasn't killed by one of the other chuck and If that was the case how do we explain the other sudden deaths unless a rat has been getting in and killing the chucks but I have two rat traps set up and baited and only ever seen two dead rats and a live caught one.

If needed I can dig the dead one up and post the pics but I don't know how that will help and it's not something others may wish to see.

MrG

[mrgrower]

If it was me I would speak to the vet and see if I could get some tests done before its to late. From what I have read and seen there is nothing that seems to scream as obvious

If it happens again that is something I will be looking at seriously as it's geting silly now In the meantime I am going to empty the run and the hen house use a very strong disinfectant everywhere and get these two chucks checked over.

Mr G

[Scarlet]

I'm a bit confused with your posting.
Is it 3 birds dead in 4 years? Hybrids have a shorter life compared to traditional breeds. 3-4 years is considered reasonable.
They look healthy enough, though diarrhea can be a sign of worms. What are you worming with? In a small run like that they need to be wormed with flubenvet fairly regularly and not just with a preventative.

[mrgrower]

3 birds plus this new one in the last 4 years all from new batches the birds that died where possibly 2 to 3 years old but they may have been younger that's a guess as there has been a quicker than expected turn around so difficult to be exact on ages, and if I had to guess id say younger.

Except this new one that if it was POL when I got it would make it no more than 8 months old and it has died in the very same manner as the other birds.

The issue isnt the deaths per-say as birds do die. It's the way they have died.

One minute they are full of beans, eating drinking mixing in nothing to suggest illness or even old age. the next day they are dead I had one alive in the morning one time no issues noted by the afternoon she was dead.

I have been using Vermex and have previously used smite as the vet instructed I was looking at the flubenvet as a new wormer and I also give some cider vinegar as a tonic once or twice a month now.

My mother used to keep chickens and so am used to the normal ailments but sudden deaths in this manner are a new one to me.

BTW the waren is only about 15 months old and if the Bluebell was POL when I got it she will be no more than 8 months old. As you say they both look healthy

( Thats how the other bird looked yesterday )

[Scarlet]

I have been using Vermex and have previously used smite as the vet instructed I was looking at the flubenvet as a new wormer and I also give some cider vinegar as a tonic once or twice a month now.

)

Your vet recommended vermex? Change vets, he's obviously not used to dealing with chickens. I think you've got a worm problem, you can't keep chickens for 7 years without worming them. Get some flubenvet asap. Possibly, red open vent due to chickens pecking after death, or when worms are "hanging".

[fishpond]

As you are no doubt aware, a chicken hides symptoms very well, so they need to be watched with great care for any unusual sign.(good excuse for a few beers/cups of tea)
But it may well be worms is the cause of the problem, especially if they are hanging out the bum.
Dose them up with flubenvet for a week and look at stool samples every day whilst dosing, if wormy which I suspect it will be even though now dead worms, they could well be the cause of cluckies problems.

[libbyloulou]

I'm sure it's nothing but your red chicken looks like it has a cloudy eye, maybe just the camera.