Liming the ground

[kathyd]

I need to start liming our garden and run, but am confused by conflicting advice about a) what sort of lime to use and b) how long to keep the birds off afterwards.

My priority is killing off worm eggs, especially gape worms where we seem to be in a vicious cycle of treat - clear - reinfect at the moment, which obviously isn't healthy for the birds (or our budget!).

They have quite a big run, but normally spend most of the day around the garden - so a total of just under 3000 sq metres to deal with in a staged approach... We also have ducks who live on a pond in the garden and need permanent access to the pond, plus dogs and cats we obviously can't exclude from limed areas.

Advice please! Thx

[Scarlet]

Builders lime is the one you need for killing worms eggs BUT you need to keep the birds off it for 3 months. You need gloves to spread it and you mustn't inhale it. Garden lime is different. If they are free ranging everywhere I'm really not sure how you can do it?

[kathyd]

Hi Scarlet. I was going to section off parts of the garden and do it in stages - eg at the moment they're banned from the veggie plot but could use the fruit garden, then swop later. The problem is the front garden with the pond and the ducks, and access for the dogs and cats, visitors and us... Plus I can't keep the cats off anywhere, so they'd always be at risk, and presumably we'd not be able to mow grass in limed areas, which isn't really on at this time of year. And we also have bees now in the veggie garden, so don't know how safe it'd be for them either. This is why I've balked previously when people have suggested liming the area...

But I feel I need to try 'something' because although I can 'control' the problem with wormers, it can't be good for them to be wormed all the time, and I hate to see them at the gaping stage (which we appear to be coming back to now). I'm constantly worried I'm going to open up in the morning and find them dead! And I'm 99% sure that one of the ducks has got them too, which is really tricky to deal with. So any advice would be appreciated! Would something like Stalosan work just in the front garden? Can't do it everywhere, but in a limited area? I know it's really meant for inside, but it's presumably safe and will kill eggs? Or will it just wash away at the first sign of rain or heavy dew (which we get a lot here)?

[fishpond]

May I ask, what are you using to worm them?

[kathyd]

I used Flubenvet a couple of times until it ran out, then got some stuff from the french vet where you just give them one dose and then can't eat the eggs for a month. Done that a couple of times with rest breaks in between, and now planning on buying Flubenvet again as soon as I can find someone coming over shortly who can bring it with them.

[Scarlet]

I don't think Stalosan works in killing the worms. I think it's just a disinfectant. I don't free range my chickens,mine are behind an electric fence that I can fence off in sections. Could you fence off an area, lime it and at the same time worm them. Then put them on the clean ground. Keep them on that while you do another area.
I'm sure there was a good thread on this before. I'll have a look.
This is worth a read:

http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...run_62259.html

[Scarlet]

I have read that when you've had a serious case of worms, when the area you have them on is small (not sure how big an area they have) it's best to worm as routine every 8/12 weeks. How often are you doing it?

[fishpond]

Even though Flubenvet is not licensed for ducks, it is apparently used to good effect.
Personally, I would forget about liming the ground as it is fraught with danger for your animals and wildlife.
I would use Flubenvet at the recommended dose and at no less than the recommended time scales.
I have never heard of duck or chicken free range farms, liming the ground.
Also just a thought, would the lime leach into the pond.

[Scarlet]

I have never heard of duck or chicken free range farms, liming the ground.
Also just a thought, would the lime leach into the pond.

That would be my worry. Getting into the water.
Builders lime burns hands, you need to use gloves. It's can be used on areas that are fenced off and not used.

[kathyd]

Hi both, thx for your replies. Scarlet - I've routinely done them twice a year until this outbreak - I've never felt that 3000 sq m for 9 birds was a small area, but maybe I'm wrong... their run, where they're put when we're out, is inside a 50m electric fence, but it's not heavily used. Since I first discovered the gapeworms this year they've been flubenvetted twice, and french-stuffed twice, so pretty regular really! I think I can use FV every 3 weeks if necessary, not sure about the french stuff on an ongoing basis, but I'm not keen to do this unless things get desperate.

I think the first thing then will be to make sure their indoor area is cleaned out thoroughly and maybe try out the flame thrower on it if I can persuade OH it's safe... Followed by trying to re-landscape the outside bit just by the door where there's a bit of concrete buried underneath a few inches of grass and weeds... Problem since Feb has been I've not been able to clean and work on things myself due to my finger (still with a dressing!!), so it's just the absolute basics getting done at the moment. Once it's cleared and cleaned, all outside feeding can be done on the concrete which can be flamed periodically, but they'll still be scratching on grubby ground elsewhere of course. I don't like the idea of builder's lime to be honest, it sounds a bit vicious!

Fishpond - I did try dosing the ducks with FV initially, but they don't eat pellets and getting it into them has therefore been tricky to say the least. I ended up mixing it with porridge like I do for the chickens, and lobbing it into the pond for them to fetch. Worked well, except that the one who's the bottom of the hierarchy probably didn't get her fair share, and I'm sure it was her I saw gaping yesterday. One of them's definitely coughing or sneezing periodically but I've not been able to work out which one yet. But the bottom of the heap one doesn't lay eggs either, not since her initial egg and then one more a month later, which I'm guessing could be worm-related? Anyway, I'm feeling a sense of urgency to get it sorted ..