New birds not settling

[d000hg]

We've got 6 hens we raised from hatched, just coming up towards 1 year old. Been laying 5-6 a day over the summer, maybe 4 in the colder months. Some friends wanted in so we just got 2 new ones, point of lay. They seem healthy and not much smaller than our others - same hybrid variety or very similar.

But after over a week, they are still not getting along. We introduced them to the coop once the other birds were roosting and the first couple of days, segregated them in a run-within-a-run. But a week later the other birds go for them relentlessly. Not just when they're trying to eat at the same time - if the others are in one corner and a new one starts eating, someone will run over specially to attack them for daring to eat! I never realised how vicious they are, properly hanging on to the back of each other.

There's no obvious damage but it's a little concerning and also irritating - the new birds spend all day on the high perch and at night just roost there, which I'm concerned is too cold in winter? If I knock them onto the ground they'll stay there a while, getting pecked at, before jumping onto a log or swing away from the others. Every night I have to go into the run and 'post' the new ones into the coop (the old ones have a habit of sleeping in the doorway to stop the door shutting too!)
We're also down to 2-3 eggs on average a day now.

I'd read this is common but that it is just for a few days. There is no sign it is improving at all. We got 2 new birds as apparently this is better (the 2 new ones are friendly to each other). We don't have a cock, so what else can we do other than wait it out?

[veggiechicken]

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We got 2 new birds as apparently this is better (the 2 new ones are friendly to each other).

2 are better than one but it is recommended that the number of new hens should be greater than the old hens. 6 against 2 is not fair on the new girls.

If I knock them onto the ground

Hope you don't mean this.

Some advice at http://www.bhwt.org.uk/information/m...ing-new-flock/

[d000hg]

Interesting, the book we have doesn't make it out to be as tricky as that. Since we already have 6, 13 in total would be way more than we need or could house.

The new ones are not causing anyone any harm, they just take the abuse and try to get off the ground out of danger, so it seems like they're firmly at the bottom of the order. Since we don't have another run should I just leave them to sit high up and give them a separate food/water supply up there so they can share the same space? It's a reasonably sized run and they are good flyers while the original ones are very lazy so I think any kind of 'mezzanine' would work.

[Snadger]

A cockerel would sort them out! I have two with a dozen birds and have no bother adding new stock.

You may need to keep them separated for a while longer, but with fairly large mesh so they can touch each other, but easily retreat if attacked. A secondary makeshift coop may also be necessary.

It would be interesting to find out how you get on.

[d000hg]

I can separate them during the day - I could just put a fence of chicken wire across the run or something. I don't SEE any issues in the coop and having a second seems tricky.

The other day the two new ones made their own coop by hiding inside a cardboard box as the sun set. It's a bit chilly for that really and I'd rather they were locked safely away at night (for fear of predators rather than people) - though we've tried to make the run secure I prefer not to test it!

[mrsbusy]

It is amazing how mean hens are!
I have integrated 2 lots to my original flock, and 4 chicks hatched by my broody. I found that you just have to be patient - I did expect trouble so got a second coop and run from Freegle - and kept mine apart; I also had netting to divide up the garden. Eventually they sort themselves out. If your 2 new ones can get up higher to roost they will be fine even if it is cold. My 4 Australorps are big heavy things and like to roost on the lowest perch; the 2 younger hens can get up on the second and third layer of perch and are fine - even the other night when the poop was frozen solid in the morning they seemed fine.
I found it just takes a really long time to integrate them and even then they just stick together in their cohorts. I did have 2 cockerels from the hatch and the hens were all more tolerant of each other but they did not like the cockerels 'attentions' and spent all day running away and hiding so no time to be mean to each other!!

[d000hg]

The other issue is that if all they want to do is perch all day, when are they ever going to lay? The original ones seem to come out for breakfast and a stroll then pop in to lay late morning. I guess the new ones need somewhere they call home - I'm not sure of the physiology if they can choose not to lay or if they simply won't have any eggs TO lay when they're stressed? One of the new ones laid an egg the first morning but then obviously none since.

[veggiechicken]

They're intimidated by the other hens. Why would they want to come down and be pecked - all they want is a bit of peace and quiet to lay their eggs - and they're not getting it.

[Scarlet]

They need a separate run and hutch for several weeks, and to be run alongside this flock until they are happy - usually in my experience, several months.....I'm not sure what book you read?
Eggs aren't important here - your chickens are too frightened to lay eggs and won't lay until the balance is addressed.
If you can't supply what is really required (seperate coop and run) you need to put several things in place.....seperate day run or at least several feeding and water stations. Until the balance is upset again I would be surprised if these hens will ever have peace, when they start getting heavily picked on it becomes a habit.
You could try distractions, hanging veg, mirrors etc but ideally you need another run in place.

[d000hg]

Thanks. A separate coop is a problem but I can keep them segregated the rest of the time now I realise it's important.

[d000hg]

So 3 weeks on and now 5 weeks since we got the birds, and not much has changed:

I built a little 'mezzanine' high up in the run with separate food and water and the two new ones exclusively spend their time there; the old ones never go up there... the new ones seem much more inclined to fly.
The new ones try to roost there but I put them in the coop every night hoping they'll get the message.

In this pattern, there is seemingly no fighting or stress. When I put them in the coop together they all seem happy and in the morning when I let them out, they come out happily and unruffled. I've noticed one of the new ones is always 3rd/4th out while the other is always last out... do they exit in pecking order?

The one who comes out earlier will sometimes come into the main run for a minute or two but will fly up to the mezzanine even if she's not getting any bother. The other one will not put one foot in the run if possible... she scoots down the ramp after the others vacate the coop and then flies immediately to her own bit, high up.

So, now what?

[Birdie Wife]

Maybe you could try separating a couple of the more aggressive birds away from the rest - that would give the new (not so new now) birds a bit more breathing space? They sound like they've found a compromise that suits them though, and you say there has been no more fighting so I would be tempted just to let them get on with it.

[d000hg]

I don't mind them self-segregating except it means every day I to go and give the new ones their water and food in small bowls which they inevitably knock over... the run has a large feeder and drinker (bucket) so normally we just have to open/close the coop and that's it. Also I have to go in (in the dark) every evening to grab the new ones from about 7 feet up and post them into the coop as I'm not happy them roosting in the run all night - this is a bit mucky and they're only just in reach!

I hadn't thought about segregating the bullies rather than the bullied, could be worth a try.

[Stan79]

They need enough space in the run to get away from the original hens. They need a place to leg it to when attacked. They need their own food and water dispensers not bowls of food and water and they need to be at the opposite end of the run from the original hens food and drink. Yes you will have to put them in at night until they start to get on...

Sounds as though you might not have done quite enough prep before they arrived. We have an 8'x6' run with a purpose built coop inside for up to 12 hens. We kept the original commercial run and coop combo and whenever we rehouse some ex battery hens we leave them in the old coop/run combo for a good few weeks. It's right next to the big run so the old and new chooks can see each other and get used to each other without having contact. I will let the old chooks out of their run and they will peck at the mesh of the small run with the new chicks and try and get at them through the bars. After 2-3 weeks separated I will let them all out into the garden (new chooks first then the old ones) and hang around for a while to separate any particularly vicious pecking order behaviour - so a nice day on a weekend is perfect when there are other jobs to do in the garden.

They will then go back in their own coops over night until the daytime aggression has subsided. Then one night I will put the new birds in the old coop. During the day I leave food in the small coop/run and leave them out to roam together so there's always space to run away and multiple sources of food... This works a treat. Sure they're still mean to each other but it's minimal but it will continue for months at a low level whenever someone higher up the order wants to remind a lower bird where they rank. It's natural!!!

[d000hg]

The 'mezzanine' definitely helps except because it's high up, they just fly up there and sit there all day - I don't think they come down once they're up whereas in a bigger run they might get chased but have room to hide. It's something like a 10'x10' run (2.5m high) for 8 birds.

Interestingly one of the new birds appears mid-way up the order now - at least in the order they leave the coop in the morning which is very consistent. But still flies up high with the other new one.

Letting them out is a good idea if the weather wasn't the way it is