Lupins

[tootles]

Having just read SBP's thread on cover crops I am quite taken with the idea of lupins. Am I too late though?? I would want them to follow toms, courgettes, cues, aubergines and peppers, so they would need to be planted at the end of the summer???
Perhaps this would only be possible in NZ (where the advice came from).
Any ideas??
Tx

[sewer rat]

Don't know a lot about lupins as a cover crop, but what I do know is that the lupins referred to are not those highly decorative ones you have in your gardens but are what are commonly refreed to as Field Lupins - and they should be incorporated before they flower or you would end up with hundreds of "volunteer" Lupin weeds the following year.

[Alice]

Sorry I misses SBP's post. I only know lupins as ornamental plants. Have googled but can't find anything informative. Anybody know anything ?

[smallblueplanet]

Here ya go Alice

http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...tml#post240373

[tootles]

Having looked again at the links supplied, and some other general checking around, the plants in question are indeed standard ornamental lupins. There is a crop version of the lupin which (it would appear) can be eaten and fed to livestock. Lupins are nitrogen fixing, so I don't suppose the variety matters - unless you want to eat it!
So back to the original question! Can we sow these now and then plant out at the end of the summer? Could the advice just purely for the southern hemisphere??
Tx

[tootles]

Have found this - but it is for California;
Cover Crop Database: Complete Crop Summary of Lupins

This is a European company (getting closer!)
www.grainlegumes.com -White lupin-

According to this there are winter varieties;
Lupinus albus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Right i'm sold!!!
Now, where do I get the seed?????
Tx

[smallblueplanet]

Nice one tootles! I look forward to seeing some pictures of them. Well actually I look forward to seeing any pictures of the Aveyron!

[Two_Sheds]

Suffolk Herbs sell lupin as a green manure: Lupinus angustufolius. £1.50 a pack. Very deep rooting for soil improvement and fixes nitrogen. Sow from March to June. Slow starter and takes 2-3 months to reach digging stage before flowering. Buy it here:Secret Seeds Green Manures & Ancient Grain Crops

[tootles]

I think I want Lupinus Albus, there are overwintering varieties which can be sown in September. I don't want to tie up my beds for a whole year!!
Will keep hunting.
Tx
p.s. SBP would post piccies but am a complete luddite!!!

[smallblueplanet]

Sowing of the crop should take place during the optimum sowing window, this varies between September to November for winter crops and March to April for spring crops depending on a number of factors, including latitude, altitude, aspect and soil type. Winter crops currently have several advantages over spring sown crops although they are not always practical in Northern European climates.

http://www.ienica.net/crops/lupins.pdf

Maybe you should try in French agricultural merchants, cos that pdf says they grow them as a fodder crop.

Or this info says

Lupinus luteus - Other than requiring good drainage, not fussy about soil. Can start from seed in winter or early spring.

Lupinus luteus ( Luteus Lupine )

[Two_Sheds]

Lupinus Luteus is Yellow Lupin, Tootles wants White Lupin (Lupinus Albus)

Well, I've had a good trawl round t'interweb, and found this lot:

White Lupin is widely spread throughout Greece, Albania, Sicily, Corsica and Sardinia, as well as in Israel, Palestine and Western Turkey (European and Western part of Asia Minor). Occurs in meadows, pastures, and grassy slopes, predominantly on sandy and acid soils.
It is cultivated over the Mediterranean region and also in Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia, Syria, Central and Western Europe, USA and South America, Tropical and Southern Africa, Russia, and Ukraine.

Tootles, are you sure White Lupin would suit your area? I can't locate any seed suppliers, so would guess not. There are plenty of other over-wintering green manures you could use instead. See my previous Suffolk Herbs link.

This is from the Soil Association: "Although winter white lupins exist, they are not suited to organic systems at present due to the increased weed and disease pressure... All of the white lupins currently grown in the UK are semi-determinate types, which are taller and form a thick canopy. This allows the plant to cover the ground quickly and aids in the smothering of weeds. White lupins can tolerate soils up to pH 7.9 and tend to yield higher than blue or yellow lupins. They have a longer growing season than blue or yellow lupins, and can be drilled (sown?) earlier (from mid-March onwards) although this will depend on location. Harvest time is normally early to mid-September although delayed drilling may result in a later harvest.

Results from the Processors and Growers Research Organisation lupin survey in 2002 suggest that winter lupins can suffer from rusts and grey moulds...aphids are a problem in winter lupins.

Growers should note that it is illegal to keep farm-saved seed for white lupins"

Home page | Soil Association: Promoting sustainable, organic farming and championing human health

[tootles]

Thank you for your foraging!!!
I am still keen...
I have found two varieties; lumen - a french one and arthur - english. These are both cold hardy winter strains, for sowing sept/oct and flowering in the early spring.
I think that they are a minority crop at the moment similar to soya - it's uses are the same too.
We could start a GYO winter trend!!!
Lupins all round...
Tx

still need a supplier though!

[smallblueplanet]

Lupinus Luteus is Yellow Lupin, Tootles wants White Lupin (Lupinus Albus)
...

I was under the impression that it wasn't particularly the colour but the fact that it could be grown when other crops weren't growing ie for most home veggie growers - late autumn/winter/v.early spring?

The stuff you linked to has sow/harvest dates "...and can be drilled (sown?) earlier (from mid-March onwards)...Harvest time is normally early to mid-September.." which is when most home growers have crops in the ground.

How's your french for asking for 'lupin lumen' then tootles?

Edit - Bit more here

Lupinus luteus L. – Yellow lupin. Annual legume, recently introduced into cultivation, mainly for animal feed and green manure. Wild forms are native to the Mediterranean belt of Europe (Co Hs It Lu Sa Si ) and the Levant.

Lupinus albus L. – White lupin. Annual legume, cultivated since classical times mainly for its edible seeds and as fodder. Wild forms (subsp. graecus (Boiss. & Spruner) Franco & P. Silva) are native to the Balkan peninsula, the Aegean region and S. Italy (Al Bu Cr Gr It Ju Tu).

Lupinus angustifolius L. – blue or narrow-leaved lupin. Annual legume cultivated for green manure, forage and the seeds. Wild and naturalized forms of this lupin occur mainly in the Mediterranean region of Europe and S.W. France. (Bu Co Cr Ga Gr Hs It ?Ju Lu Sa Si Tu [Au Az Cz Ge He Hu Po Rm Rs(C,W)])

[tootles]

Hmmmmmm
Tx