Some questions about bulbs

[WiZeR]

I have designated the top of my plot to flowers for next season. I picked up some daffs and tulip bulbs from lidl and have just ordered some alliums from ebay.

What is the earliest flowering bulb that you can get if planted now? Can I work manure into the bed now? Or shall I just dig and weed it over? Are there universal rules on spacing of bulbs? Is it ok to plant bulbs near apple trees? As I am thinking of starting off a couple of espaliers in this area next season too.

Any info greatly recieved.

[auntsally]

Can I ask a question too, sorry to but in, but if you plant bulbs such as daffs which are poisionous, can you plant root veg in the same earth straight after or do you need to leave it to clean itself?
Maybe a stupid question but i want to check.
Sal

[Palustris]

Normally the first spring bulbs to flower are Crocus, the ones sold as 'specie' (That by the way means valuable metals, not different varieties of plants, but still!). Next come the miniature daffodills and Scill mitschenkoana(?) used to be called tubergeniana which is easier to spell. Then say Scilla sibirica and the bigger daffs. Tulips again vary in timing, the small ones flower before the big tall ones. Camassia and the tall Alliums follow as does Brodiaea laxa Queen Fabiola. The bulbous Irises also fit in flowering early if reticulata types and later if labelled Dutch, German or English.
If your soil is poor then do work some well rotted manure in, but try to keep it away from the bulbs themselves. If the soil is in good heart then you do not really need to manure it. A handful of bonemeal per sq mtre would be useful in any case.
Spacing the bulbs depends on the size of the bulb and what you want to use the flower for. If for cutting then straight lines with a hoes width between the lines, but the bulbs can be almost touching within the rows. If a natural effect is wanted then just scatter the bulbs and plant where they fall.
There are dozens of bulbs underneath our fruit trees and indeed the bulbs like that sort of situation. The tree acts as a water pump, removing the moisture from the soil so the bulbs can dry off in Summer.
There is no problem with planting anything anywhere near bulbs, the toxins in the bulbs are only a problem if you eat them!
Finally deph of planting, the rule of thumb is that you should have 3 times the height of the bulb, of soil above the bulb. So for a 2 inch high daffodil you should have 6 inches of soil above the top of the bulb.
You can plant bulbs at different depths in the same area. At our previous garden we had three layers of bulbs, all flowering at different times.
Anything else?
Oh, yes Tulips should not be planted until November to avoid fungal infections.

[nick the grief]

If you read The cutting garden by Sarah Raven (OK, I own up to having a copy ....but I didn't pay full price) Shee plants them a bit deeper that is reccomended that way they don't get subject to heat in summer & tend not to make bulbils (small none flowering bulbs) - I can't say if this is trues as I haven't got my cut flower patch sorted yet.

Don't for get that you can overplant with other plants (CHrysanths & Dahlia's spring to mind - wel they would in my case ) & how about Asters as well to extend the season.

[WiZeR]

that's a wealth of information Palustris, thank you very much.

Nick, tell me more about this over planting malarky? I love Dahlias and Gerbera's and would love to have some in the same area. When you say over planting, do you litterally mean the bulb directly under the plant?

The whole purpose of this bed is for cut flowers (mainly becouse HID spends a fortune on them!).

[Palustris]

Well, not exactly over the top, but next to, so that the later flowering plant hides the foliage of the earlier flowering one.

[nick the grief]

You can plant over the top but they have to be a good way down so you don't disturb the bulble when you lift the Dahlia tubers. So it's probably best to do waht Palustris says & plant near to hide the foliage.

Another alternative is to plant htem in the aquatic baskets & then you can lift them when they have finished flowering & move them to a "summer quarter" where they are out of direct sun & you can feed them up for next year.

[JennieAtkinson]

I have been growing daffs in open baskets now for a while and what a good idea. I can move them out of the way for the summer and even put a nice flowering pot of nasturtiums over the top once the leaves have gone. I also always know where they are as the top of the basket just pokes out the ground and I don't keep digging them up. Would really recommend them.

[Palustris]

And if like us you are plagued by mice eating crocus, cover the top with not to big or small wire mesh and you do not lose the bulbs.
Mind it IS an awful lot of work digging the pots up and putting them back in, we prefer a more permanent planting ourselves.

[WiZeR]

Right, so am I putting the bulbs in baskets or the dahlias? How deep do these baskets need to be? I take it that no roots grow down from the bulb?

NTG has got me thinking about Dahlias now, should I grow them from seed or buy them as plants?

This is like a whole new world after learning just veg

[Palustris]

It is the bulbs one puts in the baskets. The baskets are the kind sold for pond plants. They are open weave things. The roots of the bulbs can grow through the holes into the soil. You fill the baskets with either your own soil, or good gritty compost. You bury the baskets with the bulbs, so that the tops of the bulbs are the correct depth delow the soil level. What a palaver!. Possibly worth it for Tulips which really need to be replaced or replanted every year, but for daffs etc which can stay in the ground it is not really necessary.
Cannot help with dahlias, gave up growing them when we moved here. They just are not in the ground long enough to flower. We get very late nd very early frosts. (Like July and September!). Have fun!

[nick the grief]

.......NTG has got me thinking about Dahlias now, should I grow them from seed or buy them as plants? ..........

Depends what you wnat Wizer. Bedding dahlia's ar grown from seed but the "normal" ones for cutting are grown from tubers (well cuttings anyway). I did a post early on this year about Dahlia's. You will soo be able to get the tubers from the garden centre (handy cos they give you a picture of what it will look like) & these can be "planted" into a seed tray of compost & kept frost free till Jan/Feb time & then you start to water them & give them a bit of bottom heat & the shoots will appear - These you take as cuttings.

If you want to enter a few in your local show (any one in the Mancetter Area it's theirs on Sunday doors open 3:00pm I think - well if we must have ad's I may as well join in ) the vairieties you get from the garden centre won't win you any prizes I'm afraid, but There are loads of places you can get them from. See the Links page of the lottie website below.

Hope that helps

[WiZeR]

thanks nick, I will deffo be looking into this, I really like dahlias... and gerberas too.

[minka1974]

Hi

Re planting depths ... I have found that cyclamen and nerines both do much better if they are planted just below the soil surface ... my grandmother actually has cyclamen planted with the tops sticking out above the soil and they do brilliantly! I do plant all other bulbs using the 3x height rule but find that cyclamen and nerines always 'dissapear' planted deeper (

Also wanted to say what a great site this is ... I have learned so much!!!! )

[roitelet]

Hi Wizer,

How about some really spectular lilies. Easy to grow and will last for several years and make lovely cut flowers. Also Gladioli ,mine have been flowering since July and are only now just coming to an end. They are super for a lottie. I dont think that they are really suitable for a flower bed 'cos they need to be staked to stop them falling over