Cosmos seedlings wilting

[Marb67]

Well, I just can't believe this. I have taken all the precautions to avoid damping off with cinnamon powder, washed containers etc and yet already the Cosmos seedlings are slowly keeling over. It cant be damping
off so what on earth is causing this? I am starting to think that everything I touch has the kiss of death. Its really disheartening.

[Snoop Puss]

What's the growing medium, Marb?

[Marb67]

Bathgate high grade seed and cutting compost.

[Snoop Puss]

I can't find any info about what's in it apart from their catalogue saying essential nutrition for development and sustained growth. The texture doesn't look like any seed compost I've ever seen. It's so fine it looks like it must be very difficult to get the watering right - dry or water-logged. Sorry, Marb, beyond that I've no suggestions.

Is this your usual compost?

[Marb67]

I can't find any info about what's in it apart from their catalogue saying essential nutrition for development and sustained growth. The texture doesn't look like any seed compost I've ever seen. It's so fine it looks like it must be very difficult to get the watering right - dry or water-logged. Sorry, Marb, beyond that I've no suggestions.

Is this your usual compost?

Yes, the brown in the cinnamon powder sprinkled on the top to stop pathogens (many Youtube gardeners are advising this to prevent it)

[ameno]

That's almost certainly damping off. Sometimes it just strikes when you don't expect it.

Yes, the brown in the cinnamon powder sprinkled on the top to stop pathogens (many Youtube gardeners are advising this to prevent it)

It's snake oil. It won't prevent anything.
Even commercial fungicides are not 100% effective (nothing is), much less these sorts of homemade remedies.

[Marb67]

That's almost certainly damping off. Sometimes it just strikes when you don't expect it.



It's snake oil. It won't prevent anything.
Even commercial fungicides are not 100% effective (nothing is), much less these sorts of homemade remedies.

Well many people swear by them (just look at Youtube and real people are documenting it) so there must be something in it. Chamomile tea also does the same.

That aside, 2 more seedlings have just flopped over. I may as well not bother if there are pathogens in the compost you buy. You are beaten before you even start. I have now resorted to using molehill soil seived. I'm just sick of failure after failure.

[ameno]

The pathogens that cause damping off are everywhere, in the compost you buy and in the soil in your garden and usually even in the air you breathe, so trying to or hoping to provide sterile conditions completely free of them is largely futile.
The best way to avoid infection isn't to try to remove the source of infection, but to prevent the conditions which the infection needs to grow. That is, keep the humidity down. To that end, don't keep your seedlings in a cloche or lidded propagator or anything like that. The lid keeps the moisture in and creates an area of high humidity, in which the the fungi which cause damping off thrive. It may also pay to increase the interval between waterings.

[Marb67]

Unfortunately I have to have a cloche in the cold greenhouse otherwise they won't germinate as it is so cold. I hardky watered, just once from underneath. The general humidity is in the air and it's high at the moment. At this rate my tomato and chilli seedlings will never survive as they def need a cover to get them to germinate.

[mothhawk]

If they are in a cold greenhouse they are probably too cold. Cosmos seedlings need to be kept above 12C all the time. Maybe wait till next month when the nights are warmer.

[peanut]

Unfortunately I have to have a cloche in the cold greenhouse otherwise they won't germinate as it is so cold. I hardky watered, just once from underneath. The general humidity is in the air and it's high at the moment. At this rate my tomato and chilli seedlings will never survive as they def need a cover to get them to germinate.

Hi Marb, I did a little check the other day as it's the first year I've had unheated propagators to use inside my unheated greenhouse.
I popped a temperature gauge inside the propagator, hoping it would be warmer but I'm afraid there was no difference temperature, they simply don't hold any heat just create still air and as Ameno says, they can cause a lot of moisture which is bad.

I only have hardy things in there and always germinate everything inside. Half hardy and tender things pretty much all need indoor temps or heated props to germinate, even some hardy annuals do, which I didn't realise.

Don't be disheartened, some seeds just aren't as strong as the rest like your little Cosmos, be happy the rest are looking ok. I had similar with a random cucumber, the rest were fine but one withered and died, it's just the way of things.

[Marb67]

Surely the covers keep in the heat otherwise why would they me made ? I would have thought they keep the frosts off. Mine have an air vent so no moisture would be inside.

The problem is I can't bring them in the house as there isn't any warm spots and we don't have the central heating on, just the coal fire as too expensive so pretty much stumped. And the garden is North East facing.

I have seen a Youtube video showing worm casts only having good pathogens in which I used too but again, this didn't work.

[peanut]

Surely the covers keep in the heat otherwise why would they me made ? I would have thought they keep the frosts off. Mine have an air vent so no moisture would be inside.

The problem is I can't bring them in the house as there isn't any warm spots and we don't have the central heating on, just the coal fire as too expensive so pretty much stumped. And the garden is North East facing.

I have seen a Youtube video showing worm casts only having good pathogens in which I used too but again, this didn't work.

I'll do another temperature comparison tonight and report back tomorrow just to be extra sure.
I don't have any heating on overnight but the temps inside rarely drop below 14c which is much better than my greenhouse.

[ameno]

Surely the covers keep in the heat otherwise why would they me made ? I would have thought they keep the frosts off. Mine have an air vent so no moisture would be inside.

The problem is I can't bring them in the house as there isn't any warm spots and we don't have the central heating on, just the coal fire as too expensive so pretty much stumped. And the garden is North East facing.

An air vent doesn't really provide enough air flow. It's better than nothing, but the air inside will still be a lot more humid and a lot more still than the air outside, which encourages fungal growth.

And even an unheated house is likely to be far warmer than an unheated greenhouse, at least at night and on cloudy days. I would bring them indoors.

[peanut]

Just to let you know Marb67 the temperature is exactly the same in the propagator, as it is on the staging both of which are in the unheated greenhouse.
Propagators don't keep heat in, they do however heat up very quickly so you need to take the lids off pretty sharpish in the mornings, for example, here at 08.15hrs it's 11.6c outside, but the prop with the lid on is already at a nice 15.8c, and this is on a cloudy dull morning, so you can imagine how quickly it will become too hot for some seedlings.
By 10.45hrs it was 14.2c outside (in the shade) but in the propagator it's now 41.3c and rising fast (greenhouse is now in the sun)

The main benefit of using a greenhouse for me is the extra heat and protection they give my heat loving plants in the Summer, Toms, Aubs etc. But I don't leave anything tender in them overnight until night time temperatures are a steady 10c minimum, which for me is around mid to late May.

Don't get disheartened, we're all on this rollercoaster ride that is gardening together