New herb garden query and some ideas

[Forage420]

I all, I have a patch of ground I would like to plant up with herbs which is 2.5metres x2.5metres.
There is a green gauge plum tree in one corner but it's a relatively young tree and the light filters through it as there is not much of a canopy.
I would like to grow the following herbs :

thyme
lavender
chamomile
lemon balm
sage
bergamont
feverfew
calendula
africa bulbine
borage
lime mint
winter savory
wild fennel
myrtle
tarragon
rosemary
garlic chives

I would like to grow some plants for wildlife too:
poached egg plant
ragged robin (likes moist ground)
harebell
knautia macedonica
forehound
fox gloves
cosmos
yellow rattle
red cover
egg and bacon plant


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Are there any considerations I need to make here?
What would be the most economical way of finding quality plants?
Should I follow some sort of planting plant or can I just pop them in ?

I'm going to walk around my allotment and see if there are any plants I can take cuttings from, which may account for quite a few of the herbs listed.

Any advice most appreciated,

p.s. I should mention that I have heavy clay but a fair amount of compost has been incorporated over the years so it is now quite friable and easy to work.

[Scarlet]

I'm on heavy clay - the only herb I can't grow seems to be thyme and I love it!
Foxgloves love dappled shade.
Rosemary does well from cuttings.
A$da fo fab herb pots for the garden early spring. They are just a Couple of pounds and they do lots of varieties. I've always had good success with them. They often do lavenda as well.

[Scarlet]

Easy from seed : I have seeds for
knautia macedonica
fox gloves
cosmos
Calendula
Maybe garlic chives if I haven't given them out already

Lemon balm I could give you a cutting if it's sprouted but if it was me I would never put this in my garden!!! It's a weed and it takes over.
PM me if you want some seed.


# I think you may need to narrow your list a little? That's not enough space to grow all those...

[Forage420]

Hi Scarlett, thank you so much for the pointers.
Send me a PM and tell me how much you want for sending me the seeds, I would love to have them. Seeing as we have similar soik conditions that would be an added benefit.

I suppose I just want to get started as soon as possible and see what grows especially as some plants take a lot time to get going.
It would be nice to benefit the environment a little because I don't have herbs or flowers growing anywhere else on my allotment besides a rosemary plant which was on the plot before I took it on and is now a monster. I took a cutting from it last year and it survived , do you think it'll be ready to go out into the ground in spring if it has roots ? It's in a shallow glass of water at the moment.

[veggiechicken]

Do you intend to use the herbs for anything or do you just want to grow them?
I'm asking because if you want to pick leaves regularly you'll need to consider how to reach the plants in the middle of the plot - unless you have long arms.
You also have some perennials and some annuals so think seriously about where to plant the perennials - especially the taller ones like rosemary because you don't want them to shade anything smaller.
Also, as Scarlet said, Lemon balm (and mint) can be invasive.
You should pot up your rosemary cutting once it has roots and let it establish itself before planting out.

[Babru]

I think yellow rattle is more a plant for grasslands than flower borders, here's how to grow it if you want to try: https://www.plantlife.org.uk/uk/disc...inanthus-minor

Garlic chives can be a pest but if you make sure to deadhead you can control it.

As others have said, both mint and lemon balm will take over and squeeze out all your other plants, so I'd steer clear! It is often suggested you can plant mint in bottomless buckets, but it'll get out pretty fast. I love mint and grow it in large pots on concrete. I know it's time to split/repot when I see it growing out the bottom of the pot....

[carolefu]

When I was planning my herb yard, I was advised never to plant sage and rosemary together, or near each other, as they do not get on. With any mint & lemon balm plants, best to pot them in separate pots, as the others have rightly pointed out, they can take over.

[greenishfing]

I am on heavy clay. Lavender grows well for me. I also grow Sage, Thyme, Chives, Garlic Chives, various mints, Bergamot, Bay leaves, Rosemary and Borage. I grow French Tarragon and Basil in the greenhouse border.

I once planted poached egg plants years ago and it self seeds now every year. If anyone grows it on your allotments I'm sure they would be happy for you to dig up some baby plants in Spring.

[Babru]

When I was planning my herb yard, I was advised never to plant sage and rosemary together, or near each other, as they do not get on. With any mint & lemon balm plants, best to pot them in separate pots, as the others have rightly pointed out, they can take over.

I've never heard of rosemary and sage not getting on! I wonder why? I've never grown them together, but not on purpose.

I have a lovely variegated sage, in my fairly shady front garden, with the wind off the sea. Tough as old boots, decorative and useful in the kitchen. What's not to like! Definitely earns a place in any garden, but seems no need to put it in a choice spot.

[carolefu]

The place where I purchased my herb plants from (Victoriana Nursery), mention it on both the rosemary & sage plants. They're really helpful with suggestions & advice - I had a borage plant that died, & the reason being, is that borage does not survive in pots (mine was put in a pot), and it's best to plant them in the garden

[Forage420]

Do you intend to use the herbs for anything or do you just want to grow them?
I'm asking because if you want to pick leaves regularly you'll need to consider how to reach the plants in the middle of the plot - unless you have long arms.
You also have some perennials and some annuals so think seriously about where to plant the perennials - especially the taller ones like rosemary because you don't want them to shade anything smaller.
Also, as Scarlet said, Lemon balm (and mint) can be invasive.
You should pot up your rosemary cutting once it has roots and let it establish itself before planting out.

Yes I would likely mulch the whole herb bed and either put a woodchip pathway in through the plants or walk on the compost. Compost is actually quite springy unlike clay, so if it's done right you can walk on it and there isn't the same compaction problem that occurs when walking on clay.
Thanks for the reminder about mint, lemon balm and members of this family. I'll likely confine these to pots near the shed.

I'm planning on keeping the canopy on all the herbs very low, perhaps no more than 2-3 feet. I'm thinking I'll plant in a north to south direction. I'm hoping this will guarantee light penetration to the lower lying plants, at least 5-6 hours of sunlight per day.

Perhaps planning a layout is a little OTT, but some of these plants will live for along time and likely see me off my allotment, so it's worth putting in a bit of energy now to get it right.

[veggiechicken]

If it was mine, I'd plant in diagonal rows.
If Bottom left corner is North, then top right is south.
Run the rows from top left (East) to bottom right (West)
Plant the tallest herbs in the row nearest the plum tree and the lowest herbs furthest away from the tree.

I'd probably plant in curved rows too, because I dislike straight ones.

[Forage420]

Good suggestion. I suppose the curve would relax things a little bit. All my veg beds are in straight lines but I'm quite happy to change the form here because it would work well I think.

[Vegi potager]

A pretty basic plan would be :
where do you want your permanent plants ie. rosemary, lavender etc.
Then perennials, then annuals.

You can get some hight from planting some things in pots, not just mint but I grow french tarragon and thyme in containers in the garden and then bring them into my unheated greenhouse for the winter. My tarragon has gone from an 9cm pot to 3x30cm pots in 3 years.

some things are really easy and cheap from seed, while mint/tarragon etc will grow from roots cuttings/division. Some of the supermarket herbs can be divided or used as cuttings.
Last year I got a few reduced plants from high st. garden centres a bit late in the season.

if you fancy "named" varieties you will need to fork out a bit more. I also recommend victoriana as a source.

Good luck and please keep us updated... we like photos

[Forage420]

Hi everyone.
This is the design I have come up with.
Taking into consideration all the tallest plants are clustered to minimise their north shadow.
Comfrey is deliberately grown on the north side of everything else as it does not seem to mind dappled or shady areas to grow. I've allowed more space for it to grow as a consequence of reduced sunlight hours.
I will set out the paths in such a way that they will gently wind and not be rigid straight lines. I appreciate the look of a meandering path.
The pattern allow for a person to be no more than a 1.5metres reach from the centre of each bed at any one time. This won't be enough to prevent compaction completely but it is a reasonable compromise I think. I may use bits of wood and walk on them when I need to extend the extra half metre or so to prune or harvest etc.
Note that this is a mix of annuals and perennials and I intend to add a few annual veg and ornamental plants when I like it - basil, dill, etc.
Some plants have been omitted like tarragon, bergaot, the labitae family, as they are better off in pots according to feedback and research.
Note, I intend to keep rosemary and lavender heavily pruned.
Welcome any feedback.
Thanks