how to?

[Headfry]

I have a new heated propagator. I have sown many seeds, tomatoes, peppers, aubergines, lettuce, cabbage, brussell sprouts, herbs, and broad beans. My problems started after an easy germination (even the flat leaved parsley was up very, very quickly) my seedlings now seem to be very leggy. how do I solve this?
The top (inside) of the propagator is covered in condensation - could this cause light reduction- thus causing leggy seedlings? I have the vents open, but makes little difference to the condensation.
Could it be to warm? if so, how do I keep all the seedling happy with their required heat levels?
Seems I have a lot to learn again. I can get seeds to germinate ok, but during the day they need light- my house is old and not much light gets in. So out in the unheated greenhouse they must go! this has to be done before I leave for work at 8am'ish
The GH could be at -2 when i leave. So I saved up and bought a lovely propagator. I just need some tips on how to get the best from it and stop leggy seedlings.
can any of you help please?

[Cutecumber]

You didn't need to use the propagator for the lettuce, cabbage, sprouts or beans. Fresh see will pop up really well in surprisingly low temperatures (beans 5 degrees, cabbage 7 degrees, etc). Too much heat will send them rocketing as you have seen.

If you're providing artificial warmth you must have light, and there is still not much around at this time of year.

Turn the temperature in the propagator down - it doesn't have to be hot, just warm enough to germinate the seedlings. After germination, the temperature should be reduced.

Ideally you would have a germinating propagator and a second area where you could provide very gentle heat. But not many of us can do that!!

[Protea]

Leggy seedlings are a common problem with heated propagators (i'm as guilty of it as anyone!). Once the seeds have germinated you can take them out of the propagator altogether and keep them somewhere warm and light (sunny windowsill is ideal if you don't have a heated greenhouse), keep turning them so they get light evenly each side. Trouble is that at this time of year they will get leggy anyway as its quite early. You can repot most of what you've sown (toms, peppers, aubs, brassicas) up to their seed leaves to get rid of the legginess, but the beans and lettuce will just have to stay that way.

The chillies and aubs would probably still appreciate being in the heated prop but you can take the lid off, they just need bottom heat and the condensation will encourge fungal diseaes.

lettuce actually doesn't need added heat to germinate (it doesn't germinate over mid-20's C) so you can leave them out of the propagator next time! equally, beans and peas are fine on a sunny wndowsill.

regarding the condensation, you need to wipe the lid every day to clear off the condensation and keep the vents open while plants are still germinating.

I've not started anything yet this year as i started waaaaay to early last year and everthing got really leggy and i had nowhere to put anything!

[Headfry]

Thank you so much for your kind help.
The temp is set for 14deg at the moment mainly for the peppers, tomatoes, and aubergines. what temp should I set as 14 deg was just a wild guess?
I shall pot up the above, but bury them as I would normally do, up to seed leaves! I am told this is ok for cabbage etc as well, is that so?
I will harden of the cabbages and leave out after re-potting them.
The propagator can be made quite tall, so the tomatoes etc can grow on in there for quite a time. At least until the nights warm up somewhat.
Strange thing is I have been growing (in my own way) veg for some 20years now, this now seem like starting at the begining again. it's kinda nice to have it all to learn, but I do need the kind of help given here.....thanks one and all

[veg4681]

hi it's my first time with heated propagator too. you're lucky your seeds are at least germinating fast. as soon as seeds germinate, i pulled them out and repot them even if the others haven't germinated in the same dish. i use the handle of teaspoon or japanese chopstick for hoicking without disturbing the neighbouring ungerminated seeds. sometimes i don't move them out fast enough so they get very leggy and sometimes i move them too early that they do take longer to grow outside the warmth of heated propagator. those they are long and leggy, i bury them very deeply when i repot.

as for condensation, just wipe them off with your hand or dish cloth etc every morning before going to work, can't be helped. the vent on my propagator are always closed but i'm able to wipe off condensation more regularly in a day. for light, i put all my repotted plants in the unheated greenhouse, in fact they're even spending the night in there but will look out for frost forecast when i will bring them all in.

[Cutecumber]

I surprised that it's set to 14 degrees - that's actually quite cool for peppers, aubergines and tomatoes!

I think it's more a light issue - where is this propagator in the house?

If it is thermostatically controlled I would get it outside in the greenhouse asap.

[Vecten]

Unless you have a heated greenhouse, using a propagator at this time of the year is really pointless. Your seedlings will need to come out of the propagator as soon as they germinate, unless you take off the lid.

And then what? If a windowsill is all you have, then the light levels won't be sufficient to grow on your plants without causing legginess, so you haven't actually gained anything.

Heat your greenhouse - for the cost of a packet of cigs, or 2 pints of beer a week it's money better spent.

[Protea]

Unless you have a heated greenhouse, using a propagator at this time of the year is really pointless. Your seedlings will need to come out of the propagator as soon as they germinate, unless you take off the lid.

And then what? If a windowsill is all you have, then the light levels won't be sufficient to grow on your plants without causing legginess, so you haven't actually gained anything.

Heat your greenhouse - for the cost of a packet of cigs, or 2 pints of beer a week it's money better spent.

Theres a difference between 'heated' as in frost free, and 'heated' as in able to sustain seedlings and grow plants on.

Most people (including me) i would imagine heat their greenhouses enough to keep stuff alive over the winter. I have 2 parrafin heaters, only one on at the moment, but lst year when i had exibition onion seedlings to grow on i used both heaters, i still only managed to keep the heat at around 5-10 degrees C at best. I don't have electricity outside so this is the only option, hence i've not even started sowing yet this year.

Headfry - if you have electricity outside, i would move your propagator there so the light levels are better, but those that you've germinated already will have to stay in the house on a bright windowsill until its considerably warmer, unless you can afford to buy an electric heater for the greenhouse to keep the temp around 15 degrees all the time!!

[Cutecumber]

I'm coming down somewhere in the middle, here...

If you insulate and partition off a small area within the greenhouse, you can achieve higher temperatures much more efficiently, for less power. You lose a little light, but you gain more useful space and flexibility. It's a half way house, so to speak.

I haven't done it, to be honest, but then I have to share the greenhouse so it's not as easy as "just do it" !!

[Headfry]

The windowsills are to dark in the house and my propagator is in my greenhouse!
I have tried to heat my greenhouse but alas I can't seem to get it much above 0 on those very cold (-5) nights. Surely the heated propagator is working in the same way as partitioning off the greenhouse?
Heeeelp!
Thank you all for your replies

[Cutecumber]

I meant that you would put the propagator inside the warm partition bit.

[pigletwillie]

Lack of light is the issue Headfry. I never use a propogator, just a kitchen worksurface but have the benefit of a greenhouse heated to 10 degrees for growing on. Unless you can offer sufficient heat for the plants to survive in after germination, either wait till March or in your case, salvage what you can and re-sow then.

In my personal experience, very few leggy plants make good adult plants, although you can plant tomatoes right up to their leaves when you pot on which helps you get away with them.

My tomatoes were pricked out two weeks ago and are still only 2 inches high, they need to grow in less heat when there is less light to keep the plants short and compact.

The main problem with heated propogators is that they cause straggly, leggy plants within hours as they grow rapidly in the heat and search for light.

With the exception of a few varieties of chillie which can take a few weeks, pretty much everything you will grow will germinate without a propogator, sat in the kitchen within a few days, peppers and aubergines can take about 10 days, but you dont get forced, leggy plants.

[Headfry]

sorry Cutecumber, mis understood you. The propagator seems to keep things warm enough so far (I think) maybe too warm at times. would this not reduce light levels?
I am so lost on this one.....thanks for all the help given :-)
My kitchen is mega warm- nice and makes a fab propagator, however- the light is so poor in there! which is why I got the propagator in the first place- did I do the wrong thing?
it's more t keep frost off at nights and early / late in the day. It can be made up to about 39cms tall. oh dear woe is me.

[Protea]

sorry Cutecumber, mis understood you. The propagator seems to keep things warm enough so far (I think) maybe too warm at times. would this not reduce light levels?
I am so lost on this one.....thanks for all the help given :-)
My kitchen is mega warm- nice and makes a fab propagator, however- the light is so poor in there! which is why I got the propagator in the first place- did I do the wrong thing?
it's more t keep frost off at nights and early / late in the day. It can be made up to about 39cms tall. oh dear woe is me.

Don't stress Headfry, salvage what you've got germinated so far, and leave the rest of the sowing until mid march or so when you can use the greenhouse with better light levels. If the ones you have so far don't make it, or get too leggy, then re-sow what you can.

If you have the time, put the plants out in the greenhouse during the day, in the propagator with the heat turned off, and bring them in at night so they don't get too cold. The toms don't need to sit on heat once they've germinated and the lettuce etc definately doesn't. All is not lost

[Janco]

I have a hot bench set at 18 degrees in my greenhouse. I put my seeds in module trays with a cheap plastic cover on them and put them on the hot bench several weeks ago. When the seeds had germinated I took off the covers and made a simple frame to fit over the entire hot bed and I cover this frame with fleece every night and even on cold days. I remove it on sunny days. It has worked really well. No leggy plants and all surviving happilly so far!