The black fly have arrived - help !

[Tam]

I have been organic for years and never have used insecticides. For the first two or three years, we had greenfly, blackfly and various other nasties. Thankfully now we have no problems along these lines, as the birds, hoverflies, lacewings and ladybugs keep the plants clean.

[Patsy]

Did you manage to get any produce for the first few years Tam and if so how/

[Demeter]

We've had blackfly on our broad beans for weeks - I spray them with soapy water, and squish whenever I'm there. The infestation goes down for a bit and then comes back as soon as you look the other way! At the mo some plants seem to have it really badly while others have hardly any. We had ants, put down semolina which seemed to get rid of them - but the ants are now coming back (possibly a new lot of ants from a different nest as they are all over the site) so we are going to get some more semolina down ASAP and keep squishing!

It's a pain, and disheartening, and I only *hope* it'll turn out OK - but the good news is that so far the plants all seem to be surviving and growing flowers / beans despite the infestation - which hasn't spread to any of the other crops (yet!) I'm just going to keep squishing and hope the ladybirds turn up soon to save me the job. I saw *one* ladybug the other day and I'm hoping she's gonna let her friends know about the feast.

[lottie dolly]

I did have black fly,but after taking note of previous threads of advice,i made up a garlic spray,with a spray in one hand and squishing with the other,the broadies have been clean for over a week,on reading the thread again,i realised i used the mixture neat,whoops,everything is fine,also used it on the green fly in the greenhouse,with good results,may need two goes,but is better to squish as you spray,its messy but worth it.

[Paulottie]

Seems to me you have 2 options.
1) Be organic and lose the crop
2) Use insecticide and have something to eat at the end of this.

Yeah sod the birds and the bees...lets nuke those bugs.
I couldn't disagree with you more (except about foxes). You may as well give up and support the supermarkets... then you'll just be eating the chemicals rather than breathing them as well. Perhaps veg growing isn't for you? 'Organic' as a word seems to have been hijacked by marketing but the principals of avoiding chemicals using companion planting and encouraging beneficial predators are sound. It is really only a matter of outwitting a few insects, rodents and birds


The third option is: Regularly care for your plants in well prepared land; know your garden friends and enemies; stack the odds in favour of the former and be a little patient and ...or as its often known ...be a 'gardener.' Grown with experiance, a few well timed barriers and no pesticides you'll find that there is plenty of really tasty something to eat at the end.... for your family, your friends as well as a few loses to wildlife.

I have been organic for years and never have used insecticides. For the first two or three years, we had greenfly, blackfly and various other nasties. Thankfully now we have no problems along these lines, as the birds, hoverflies, lacewings and ladybugs keep the plants clean.

exactly.

Fourth option: If there is a bad infestation....squish/wash them off. You don't need the soap. Even the squeamish can just jet 'em off with a hose every few days.... they soon give up especially with a few well placed nastursiums to offer cover.

[shirlthegirl43]

Even the squeamish can just jet 'em off with a hose every few days.... they soon give up especially with a few well placed nastursiums to offer cover.

Oh, didn't realise that I could jet them with the hose - I was worried I would blast the flowers off too Next year I am determined to remember to sow the nasturtiums and marigolds - the packets are sat looking at me but I forgot this year (good old CFS memory strikes again). I can't squish bugs - don't have the strength in my fingers or stomach!

[Norm]

Yeah sod the birds and the bees...lets nuke those bugs

Too right

I couldn't disagree with you more (except about foxes).

That's the attitude - save the birds and bees and slaughter foxes
Bit of a duel standard there, but never mind, it's what I've come to expect

You may as well give up and support the supermarkets... then you'll just be eating the chemicals rather than breathing them as well.

Don't you just love knee jerk reactions and over-simplification to support a reactionary opinion

Perhaps veg growing isn't for you?

Sorry Paul, I didn't realise that there was an obligation to follow your misguided opinions.

'Organic' as a word seems to have been hijacked by marketing but the principals of avoiding chemicals using companion planting and encouraging beneficial predators are sound. It is really only a matter of outwitting a few insects, rodents and birds

If that is true, why are so many experienced 'organic' growers coming into this forum saying their crops have been destroyed by predators and asking for help



As for outwitting a few insects, birds and rodents, yes, of course it is, in a pigs eye If it's so simple, why do retailers sell organic produce at such higher prices than non-organic produce? Simple.
Although there are no costs for chemicals, organic growing is extremely labour intensive and crop loss from pests and disease is 50% higher than non-organic production.

The third option is: Regularly care for your plants in well prepared land; know your garden friends and enemies; stack the odds in favour of the former and be a little patient and ...or as its often known ...be a 'gardener.' Grown with experiance, a few well timed barriers and no pesticides you'll find that there is plenty of really tasty something to eat at the end.... for your family, your friends as well as a few loses to wildlife.

Isn't the ideal world a wonderful thing. The problem with this idea is that the vast majority of us have a life, of which gardening is a part, not the whole.
How do you think 'gardeners' coped before the organic brigade evolved and started demanding changes which have reduced harvests, increased pests and, if you look on a global scale, caused the death by starvation of millions of people

G_d bless Bayer

[Paulottie]

Oh, didn't realise that I could jet them with the hose - I was worried I would blast the flowers off too Next year I am determined to remember to sow the nasturtiums and marigolds - the packets are sat looking at me but I forgot this year (good old CFS memory strikes again). I can't squish bugs - don't have the strength in my fingers or stomach!

Plants should be OK. I think there is a correct pressure (between firehose and trickle) to squirt blackfly with.

All this aside, I do find autumn sown beans avoid all this hastle

Congrats on MOM...perhaps you'll get some gardening gloves in your pressie haul!

[chrissie07]

I was told by an aged allotment grower that if you plant your broad beans in october you dont seem to get such a large infestation of black fly. I tried this and it does seem to work

[Pumpkin Becki]

I've had great sucess with using very diluted Tea tree shampoo (Body Shop of course ducky) in a squirter. I think it works in two ways - the soap content breaks down the protective coating on the blackfly, and Tea Tree is a natural insect repellent.

[Tam]

Did you manage to get any produce for the first few years Tam and if so how/

Yes, I did get crops in the first years, but it meant I had to keep on top of manually removing pests, which was very time-consuming. It was also the time when I planted things to attract the beneficial insects, such as verbascum and poached egg plants - Plants That Attract Beneficial Insects - this is quite a helpful link. I think we're sorted now, but I'm afraid that there is a nightly slug hunt, although I do have three resident toads who assist.

[shirlthegirl43]

Plants should be OK. I think there is a correct pressure (between firehose and trickle) to squirt blackfly with.

All this aside, I do find autumn sown beans avoid all this hastle

Congrats on MOM...perhaps you'll get some gardening gloves in your pressie haul!

LOL, tried skooshing them earlier and bruised a leaf or two! Thanks for the congrats - I have gardening gloves but unless they have a built in squish facility I still won't be able to try that method.

I've had great sucess with using very diluted Tea tree shampoo (Body Shop of course ducky) in a squirter. I think it works in two ways - the soap content breaks down the protective coating on the blackfly, and Tea Tree is a natural insect repellent.

I guess I could try that method too - I can manage to squeeze the squirty thing a few times anyway. Will have to be Tesco tea tree shampoo though - Body Shop is 35 miles from me

[areia]

i was out today with my with my hog paint brush and hand squirter been practising my aim getting quite good at shooting the buggers off, found 4 ladybirds in my greenhouse today so i tapped them into and old multivit bottle and tapped them out onto the lid and put them on, one by one one my beans tried to do this quickly to avoid them flying off as ive found just carrying them, they get bored.
Off out now to sort the ants they are everywhere with the ole semolina. I used to be very squimish squishing the buggers but once you start its not so bad after a few days you get used to it, Still cant get over the slugs though had to leave a load of slime to dry and harden off before i picked them all up today now they really make me feel physically sick.

everyone can be organic, but we all have a our limits of pest control and at least when we are growing our own we know what treatments we are using, I mean my apple trees have had 2 treatments for preventing insects when you buy them from the store there is speculation of UP to 30 chemicals used at any time on the plant, to either improve growth, prevent insects and infections,