New to Grow your own

[tishtash]

I am going to be getting my first allotment plot tomorrow, decided to get one, as i am hoping it will encourage my children to eat more and enjoy vegetable, but i am totally a newbie, can anyone point me in the right direction, to what i should be doing first and what seeds i can sow at his time of the year.

I know i have to dig the plot all over, but read that i should not put manure down until Autumn??? So should i buy some good quality top soil?

Have got a couple of books, which i will be reading and referring too, but i always find it helpful to speak to people who know what they are doing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you


sorry - just found the sowing chart on the growing thread. going to do more exploring.

[Demeter]

Hi tishtash - welcome to the vine, and congratulations on your new allotment!
I have also just got my first one
(Although was previously growing - still am growing - in my own garden and on a shared community plot at the city farm.)

The most important thing to take on your first day I reckon is a notebook, so you can pace out the plot, do a rough sketch and make a note of the approximate dimensions. This helps no end when you're lying in bed at night imagining what you're going to do with the plot!

Have fun with the search button, and good luck with your plot!

[Demeter]

I know i have to dig the plot all over.

You don't necessarily have to dig at all (there are various "no-dig" methods) and certainly you don't have to dig the whole plot right away unless you want to plant the whole plot immediately - which would be quite ambitious, especially at this time of year! So it might be worth thinking about making life easier for yourself than that, especially if you have a big plot.

I've just read a book on organic gardening which recommends a no-dig or at least a low-dig approach as it says digging damages the soil structure! (which means I can feel virtuous about being lazy )

I'm mulching almost my entire plot with whatever I can find (mostly cardboard, old carpet, and some black weed-control plastic I got cheap in the sale) - the idea is that by covering the weeds they will die back and then you either don't have to dig at all, or if you do dig it is a lot easier once you've killed / weakened most of the weeds. I'm expecting to have to dig at least once, just not all at once and I'm hoping it'll be easier when the time comes. After that, I'm going to try the no-dig approach...

The only bit I'm digging at the moment are a few small patches where I've got some plants to put in, so I can at least be growing something, but to be honest it isn't a great time to start most things off. I'm going to uncover some of the plot in autumn to plant things like garlic, onions and broad beans. The rest will stay covered til spring.

I read that i should not put manure down until Autumn??? So should i buy some good quality top soil? .

I shouldn't think you will need to buy top soil either, unless there is something wrong with your existing soil (or if you urgently need to build and fill raised beds, I guess).

Manure is always good! But I've read recently that you shouldn't put it on if you are going to leave the soil bare as the nutrients will wash away and weeds will move in. I had planned to put manure on top of my cardboard so it could all rot down together but I'm not so sure now as I don't want the effor to be wasted and anyway, having had a look at the soil, I can see that it's really rich already so doesn't urgently need manure.

I'm currently reading up on green manure (although "green mulch" is probably more accurate) to help with nutrient retention and weed control, but I can't decide yet what is the best for me to do!!

(And nor can you until you've had a good nosey round the plot!)

[tishtash]

Thanks for your replies Demeter, I can't wait to go and see it tomorrow afternoon, really excited, will post what its like tomorrow evening, in my book it says usually they may be an old shed or greenhouse on your plot, so fingers crossed.

Good idea about the digging, will just clear a small area and take down something to cover up another area too.

I looked through the sowing plan, and saw that i could grow some carrots, turnips, and cabbage. Potatoes getting blight scares me a bit, so might leave them till next year.

Roll on tomorrow.

[Hazel at the Hill]

You are doing the best reseach that you can, Tishtash, by being on here!

Rules for new allotment holders:

1 Do not overdo it - enthusiastic digging is your back's worst enemy
2 Do a bit at a time and cover what you can't get to yet so the weeds don't go bananas
3 Draw a rough plan, but don't be a slave to it - it will evolve as you see what you like/don't like and what works and doesn't work for you
4 Talk to the locals - they will know what will and won't do well on your soil/aspect/area.
5 However, don't get overwhelmed with advice - there are 7,000 odd members of the Vine alone who will give the same number of differing pieces of advice! It's YOUR plot after all - do what feels right to you!
6 Look at the bigger picture and aim to follow a rotation - but don't fret too much if it takes a while to sort out (I very much like John Seymour's Self Sufficiency and try to stick to his rotation, for example)
7 Remember to set aside a 'permanent' section for rhubarb/fruit bushes
8 Above all enjoy your plot and veggies!

Well done, and of course, welcome to the Vine!

[Hazel at the Hill]

I looked through the sowing plan, and saw that i could grow some carrots, turnips, and cabbage.

And lettuce, radish, a late sowing of peas, and french beans, khol rabi, pak choi.....

[tishtash]

Went down to see my allotment plot today, and the weeds are up to my chest, and covered, by all accounts it has been left for 6 months, but the guy before me was growing crops on there last year.

So hopefully going off tomorrow after work, and going to strimmer it all down, and then leave for a few days, and then they said i can burn it.

My uncle is giving me a composter, will i be able to put the weeds in there? If so i think i will still need to do a bonfire as they will be so many of them.

Really wanted to go organic, but a couple of people said to use weed killer on it, i was thinking of covering half of the plot, and then seeing if i could keep on top of the weeds with the other. Raised plant bed were mentioned as my plot can get quite wet, and soil is clay which is the usual in Milton Keynes. So this is going to be my first dilemma, to use weed killer or not too.

[bluemoon]

We started out by covering half the plot and cultivating the other half, (we've never used any form of chemicals) then gradually bringing more ground into use, planting more permanent things such as fruit bushes to act as windbreaks. We were lucky in that we got our plot in winter and it was obvious from day one that it was exposed to winds and the low, winter sun was largely obscured by trees and hedges. I wouldn't make any definite plans until you have more idea of what your plot is like throughout the seasons. There is a good deal of satisfaction to be had from taking things slowly, getting to know your plot, enriching the soil, etc. Then gradually working with it (rather than battling against it) to bring it into production. This is not laziness, it's just common sense and it's lovely to experience something in terms of the seasons rather than from hour to hour as we tend to do everything else in the modern world.
Good Luck.

[Stacey Steve]

Welcome, I too am in the land of concrete cows and have had 3 plots exactly 2 years now in Wolverton.

I took the option of only working bits at a time. Of the three plots, one is just fruit trees, one is 3/4 a fruit cage and my shed and greenhouse.

The last is for veg and I have gone for the raised bed option, only approx half is now done and in use, the rest of this plot should have all it's beds dug and composted by the end of this year.

So I advocate working in manageable sections. Getting a small bit prepared and planted at a time. At least you can see and eat the results of your eforts without killing your self in the process.

[Demeter]

Went down to see my allotment plot today, and the weeds are up to my chest, and covered, by all accounts it has been left for 6 months, but the guy before me was growing crops on there last year.

So hopefully going off tomorrow after work, and going to strimmer it all down, and then leave for a few days, and then they said i can burn it.

My uncle is giving me a composter, will i be able to put the weeds in there? If so i think i will still need to do a bonfire as they will be so many of them.

Really wanted to go organic, but a couple of people said to use weed killer on it, i was thinking of covering half of the plot, and then seeing if i could keep on top of the weeds with the other. Raised plant bed were mentioned as my plot can get quite wet, and soil is clay which is the usual in Milton Keynes. So this is going to be my first dilemma, to use weed killer or not too.

You can put the weeds on a composter. If there is too much to go in there you can start a compost heap in a corner as well. You will be surprised how much they rot down, so it maybe that you can keep adding to the composter even if you can't get them all in at once. You will get more benefit from composting than burning because if you burn then much of the goodness will be lost; if you compost then you'll have a nice good lot of organic matter to incorpoate into the soil next spring!

I personally wouldn't use weedkiller because I prefer to garden with nature than against it - it just sits better with me to do it that way, and I'm convinced that it will be less work in the long run... Others do use chemicals and get good results with them, and certainly it might be a way to get yourself off to a quick start. But there are a few things to remember if you are thinking of using weedkiller e.g. some weedkillers stay in the soil for a long time which means you can't plant anything until the poison has broken down (so much for a quick start). Weedkillers may also damage beneficial soil insects and bacteria, which means that if you are planning to go organic and just use the weedkiller as a jump start, you might actually be setting yourself back by damaging the plot's ecosystem. And some weeds will need to be dug out even if you do use weedkiller so you're only saving yourself part of the work. I think I'm also right in saying that weedkiller kills the weeds, but the thousands of weed seeds that are already in the soil live on, to germinate another day... I guess those are all the reasons why I personally won't use chemical products; although the cost is a contributing factor as well!

[Kristen]

Demeter, I'm Pro "roundup" and pretty much anti any other chemical if I can possibly avoid it.

You are right in what you say, but roundup will kill the existing plants down the the roots, including most of the pernicious weeds with the exception of mares tails (IME), and is neutralised on contact with the soil - only exception being aquatic life, so its important to keep it out of fish pond etc.

I think it provides a flying start, and if you do any weeding at all you are unlikely to ever need it again! but unless you have plenty of time on your hands to tame a wild plot initially then I think its a good tool to use, just that once.

All the weed seeds will still grow - but they are going to come up anyway.

One thing I think Roundup does give you is the opportunity to rotavate (again, at the outset) because the weeds will be dead, and so chopping up their roots won't matter. I think its a big job for newbies to hand-dig a whole plot that hasn't been cultivated for quite some time. Digging is a skill in itself, and a bad back is not an encouraging way to start a new hobbie!

I do respect anyone who doesn't want to use chemicals at all, but I think its worth doing some background reading, here's a useful place to start:

Roundup - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Demeter]

Blimey Kristen that Wikipedia article scared the living daylights out of me
Of course much of what they say is debated one way or the other, but I'm glad it's not a debate that anyone's having on my plot.

As I said on another thread today, I'm not a crusader against weedkiller, I just don't personally want to use any (and as a newbie whose dug one new plot already this year, and just taken on another, I agree it's a lot of hard work! that's why I'm not digging the new one all at once )

On an almost completely unrelated note, I went down to my plot at lunchtime and saw a slow worm. It was under a bit of old carpet - I lifted the edge up to move it a little bit and there was a slow worm underneath. How fantastic is that?!

[Snadger]

The two main tips I would give you are to take some 'before and after piccies' and only grow what you and your family like to eat! (apart from an odd experiment!)

I am personally against using weedkillers or pesticides of any description until all other means of cultivation have been explored. (preferably organic)

It could have something to do with me having Professional Pesticides certificates (PA1,PA2 & PA6) allowing me to do every type of spraying using knapsack or tractor mounted boom sprayers, everything apart from crop dusting from a plane.
The top and bottom of it is, I DON'T LIKE USING PESTICIDES! and will explore any other avenues before resorting to them!

In the end, it's up to you what you do with your plot though and you can look on it as a blank canvas waiting for you to leave your mark!

[tishtash]

Thanks for all the great advice, lots to think about, I think i am not going to use weed killer and persist with the weeds. I did plan to go down there yesterday, but the rain started just as i finished work, and the guy who was going to unlock the strimmer for me, said it would be best to leave it for when it was dryer, as it would be hard work, as everything would get stuck round the blades, which was a big shame as OH was around yesterday to help, nezxt week he has a busy week and it is just going to be me.

Got to fly too work now. Bye

[tishtash]

An Update

Well its been a couple of weeks now, Had to wait to start strimmering (sp) as it was raining so managed to get started 9 days ago, got massive bruises on my side where the strimmer was resting, but after 2 day manged to strim it all back. Glad that part is over.

Raked up and put in a few bundles and waiting for it to dry out to we can burn it. Have managed to dig one of the raised beds, and OH nearly finished making the box for it (he doesnt get much time off from work - so that has been a slow progress) Now started to dig another raised bed which is going to be bigger than our first probably got 3/4 way through it. Going to go Organic, so not using any weed killer.

Have cleared the back part and covered it about 1/3 of the plot, as that is where any out buildings will go and outrs chairs to sit in for our well earned rest.

Have managed to acquire a greenhouse from my aunt and uncle, which is great, just got to book OH so we can both go round and dismantle it.

Have sowed some carrots in newspaper pots so that i can just bury the whole of the newspaper pot when they have taken.

My mum is now away for a month (she is helping me with it) so i have got lots of digging to do on my own for the next month - might have a digging party !!!!

Really enjoying it thou.