Crop rotation / autumn+winter sowings

[Farmer_Gyles]

i keep asking but not had an answer yet that makes sense to me .....

crop rotation is to prevent build up of disease etc etc etc
so i do a basic 3 year rotation
bed 1 is potatoes - next year it's peas and beans etc
bed 2 is peas and beans etc - next year it's brassicas
bed 3 is brassicas - next year it's potatoes

so the spuds are coming up now, the peas have finished, cauliflower is in the freezer - i have space in all 3 beds

leaving the space empty till next year seems a waste, especially seeing as some people are sowing caulis, onions etc for the winter and some have planted out a second sowing of peas etc

BUT ....
if i plant out cauliflowers now where i've pulled up the peas, i can't plant more cauliflowers in that bed in the spring
and if i put peas and beans into bed 1 now, i can't plant out more in the spring
or can i?

or should i be doing a 4 / 5 / 6 year rotation??
all i want is to grow useful stuff summer AND winter without risking the build up of disease etc

please please please can someone give me a clue??!!!

[Two_Sheds]

I have 4 beds (roots, legumes, brassicas, alliums). It's that easy.

Don't sweat it.
Just don't plant the same crop 2 years running, until you get the hang of crop rotation.

[Pumpkin Becki]

I had trouble too, but I also found it better to work on a four bed system.
1) Brassicas
2) Legumes
3) Roots/ Potatoes
4) Non-rotational stuff like courgettes, pumpkins etc

For example, my runner beans and peas finished September/October time last year and in its place I put my autumn sewn onion sets, which stayed in the ground until last month, so technically they were my 2008 crop although I planted them in '07. Now I should have followed those with a root or non rotational crop, but I needed the space for my leeks in instead (technically a legume as are onions according to my books).

I think in the first year or so it isn't too critical to follow crop rotation religiously, but I certainly won't put another legume crop in that bed in the spring once the leeks are all harvested.

[Two_Sheds]

A leek/onion is not a legume, it's an allium. Which book says it's a legume?

A Legume is:
a. A pod, such as that of a pea or bean, that splits into two valves with the seeds attached to one edge of the valves.
b. Such a pod or seed used as food.
2. A plant of the pea family.

[Pumpkin Becki]

A leek/onion is not a legume, it's an allium. Which book says it's a legume?
.

Well, thats what confused me too...I can't remember exactly which book as I've had to put them into storage until our new house is built, but it might have been John Seymour 'Concise guide to Self-sufficiency'. I copied the list into my own allotment planner...now I think I've possibly made some terrible mistake...thank goodness it's only year two...

[vicky]

I think what the book may mean is that you treat leeks as a legume, ie they are planted with the legumes in the crop rotation.

Farmer Gyles, I don't like having empty space either, so after I pull up spent plants I will always try to fill the gap. I make sure the brassicas and the tomatoes are on a strict rotation and I try to follow plans as much as possible but if the choice is empty space or carrots where they were last year I know what I'd go for!

[Pumpkin Becki]

I think what the book may mean is that you treat leeks as a legume, ie they are planted with the legumes in the crop rotation.

Thank you! I don't feel quite so stupid now

[Snadger]

I think crop rotation is being mixed up with annual rotation. Just rotate the crops no matter when the changeover period is!

[Farmer_Gyles]

I think crop rotation is being mixed up with annual rotation. Just rotate the crops no matter when the changeover period is!

ahhhhhh ...... starting to make sense now ....!
this is gonna make things so much easier ......

[Duronal]

does anyone know if you could still plant leeks this time of year?

[Snadger]

does anyone know if you could still plant leeks this time of year?

Hope so.........planted a load yesterday in the area vacated by my early spuds!

[Eyren]

I think what the book may mean is that you treat leeks as a legume, ie they are planted with the legumes in the crop rotation.

On the other hand, beans apparently don't like to be grown close to onions and fail to thrive, whereas carrots do particularly well grown in between rows of alliums (since the smell of their foliage helps to deter carrot root fly).

I've had a lot of fun working out a rotation plan for my tiny allotment, trying to keep the ground in production for as long as possible. The main thing you have to account for is that some crops stay in the ground a lot longer than others - for example, warm climate crops such as sweetcorn and squash are restricted to the frost-free months (basically May - Sept/Oct), whereas a lot of our traditional British crops can be in the ground for nine months to a year, often over winter.

It also depends on the soil, pests and diseases prevalent on your plot. We don't seem to get a lot of trouble with clubroot, thanks to the alkaline clay soil here, so although I do rotate my brassicas, I can grow several crops of them in the same bed over the course of twelve or more months (e.g. spring cabbage followed by caulis, turnips, PSB and kale) before rotating them on to the next bed.

Finally, of course, it depends on what you like to eat! I like to grow lots of alliums, legumes and leafy brassicas but am not so keen on root veg, so I just slot a few of those into the rotation wherever they fit best.

So, for your three-bed rotation:

bed 1 is potatoes - next year it's peas and beans etc
bed 2 is peas and beans etc - next year it's brassicas
bed 3 is brassicas - next year it's potatoes

bed 1 - if you like broad beans, you could try overwintering some here, then add peas and other beans in spring

bed 2 - put some spring cabbage, chard and/or winter spinach in after the beans - as they come out, replace them with caulis, etc. Alternatively overwinter some onions but leave gaps where you can plant your young caulis, then as the early onions come out they'll leave room for the caulis to grow.

bed 3 - could still have brassicas in until spring (PSB, kale - still just about time to get some plug plants in), or just let it rest (well mulched, of course!) over winter.

[Two_Sheds]

does anyone know if you could still plant leeks this time of year?

so you mean plant or sow?
I just transplanted 50 pencil-size leeks into their final holes. The next sowings (of seed) will be in April.

[Farmer_Gyles]

cheers Eyren, that helps too

i'm planning for my new allotment too and want to get lots planted out as soon as possible - which means knowing what's going to be planted where and when .... and kinda need to know fairly soon or it'll be too late for winter sowing / planting

i'll have to increase to 4 beds, maybe 5 to allow for the overlap time between winter crops coming out and spring crops going in

i've got the broad beans (aquadulce claudia) - packet says harvest june/july - but they'll be where the peas and french beans are going to be in spring, so i might end up pulling the broad beans early .......

but next time round, how about this ....... i'll have say 3 rows of spuds - the first 2 rows of spuds will be replaced with leeks, the 3rd row with broad beans - the leeks will be replaced in spring with french beans and peas, the broad beans will be replaced with lettuce / spinach - is that about right??

i want loads of onions, spuds, carrots, peas, french beans, lettuce, spinach, cauliflower, sweetcorn - as much as i can of each
i want some cabbage, sprouts, broad beans, runner beans, celery, rocket, beetroot, parsnip and other bits
things like leeks, courgettes etc, happy to grow them, might use them, if not will give them away cos always know people who'll have them
tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers will all be greenhouse crops, the more i can get, the better

so .... roots, brassicas, legumes are all rotational crops ..... providing i don't grow the same type on a bed 2 years running (or within 3 years?), anything else can be grown anywhere at any time ... ????