Green manures - can you help?

[Snadger]

Hi,

I'm using Caliente Mustard for green manure on my plot, partly because i work for the company that sells it, and also because i believe it to be one of the best green manures. The green manure effect is not its only benefit however - the gas produced when chopping the plant can be incorporated into the soil and helps to reduce soil disease and weed seeds, amongst other things.

Just to clarify the gas given off is ITC (isothiocyanate) and is produced by all members of the brassica family - this mustard has just been bred to produce high levels of it.

I used it in an area of my garden last year that had just been cleared and was covered in weeds - it kept the weeds down fantastically for nearly the whole summer (didn't grow anything on it so don't know about soil improvement) You need to incorporate it GREEN to get the benefit - it isn't frost hardy so Autumn sowings are best, incorporating before the first frosts (and before it sets seed). Other mustards will do a similar job but have longer growing seasons and have not been bred specifically for the job, but unless your a commercial grower its really not an issue.

more information here: http://www.victoriana.ws/Product.asp?PID=700

Facinating stuff...just goes to show what a commitment to organics can do!

[nick the grief]

Hi,

I'm using Caliente Mustard for green manure on my plot, partly because i work for the company that sells it, and also because i believe it to be one of the best green manures. The green manure effect is not its only benefit however - the gas produced when chopping the plant can be incorporated into the soil and helps to reduce soil disease and weed seeds, amongst other things.

Just to clarify the gas given off is ITC (isothiocyanate) and is produced by all members of the brassica family - this mustard has just been bred to produce high levels of it.

I used it in an area of my garden last year that had just been cleared and was covered in weeds - it kept the weeds down fantastically for nearly the whole summer (didn't grow anything on it so don't know about soil improvement) You need to incorporate it GREEN to get the benefit - it isn't frost hardy so Autumn sowings are best, incorporating before the first frosts (and before it sets seed). Other mustards will do a similar job but have longer growing seasons and have not been bred specifically for the job, but unless your a commercial grower its really not an issue.

more information here: http://www.victoriana.ws/Product.asp?PID=700

Thats worth knowing protea. One or two of the guys in our chrysanth club were disgussing whether to steralise their soil this year. I might suggest this to them as it is a two pronged approach

[Protea]

Thats worth knowing protea. One or two of the guys in our chrysanth club were disgussing whether to steralise their soil this year. I might suggest this to them as it is a two pronged approach

Definatly worth a go, might be a bit late to get a crop incorporated now though - they'd have to try to overwinter it (sow late September/early October), but if its a small area they could always bung some fleece over it to keep it going. we've had HUGE plants from overwintered crops (7ft tall and i'm not kidding!).

There's also a mustard seed meal that might be of interest to them but you'd better PM me as i don't think its appropriate for this site.

[OverWyreGrower]

We're ploughing up our field shortly and planting over-wintering green manure before we divide the field up in the spring (half for veg beds & soft fruit, the rest planted as lawn). It's never been used for anything (grass and weeds) and needs ploughing/rotavating and the rolling before anything can be done with it.

We're thinking of using Phacelia tanacetifolia as it doesn't affect the crop rotation.
Does this sound OK, or is there another green manure better suited?

Cheers

OWG

[andrewo]

I use Phacelia, the great thing about like mustard is the height, if you live in an exposed area, a late sowing of Phacelia gives you a nice green carpet. The following year you can then dig it in or leave patches to flower. It's a great green manure because it acts in two ways, locks in the nutrients over winter and stops the heavy rain washing them away and when it flowers the following year it brings in bees, hoverflies and even dragonflies! Tried rye grass but the wind just flattens it around here and you spend more time trying to support the stuff.

[nick the grief]

We're ploughing up our field shortly and planting over-wintering green manure before we divide the field up in the spring (half for veg beds & soft fruit, the rest planted as lawn). It's never been used for anything (grass and weeds) and needs ploughing/rotavating and the rolling before anything can be done with it.

We're thinking of using Phacelia tanacetifolia as it doesn't affect the crop rotation.
Does this sound OK, or is there another green manure better suited?

Cheers

OWG

I know it may be a bit expensive, but see if you can hire a turf cutter (like they use on Ground farce) then you can stack the turf for making compost - well worth the effort.

[Teresa Sorokin]

Being new to this grow you own business, I have grown a couple of green manures and tried to dig them in before they flowered - what a job that is.... I chopped the plants up with a spade but no matter how deep I attempted to dig the bits in they seemed to surface again in the next spade full. Is there a knack to this? I also had really rubbish broad beans this year, loads of pods but totally empty - any ideas why?
Teresa

[nick the grief]

You won t be able to have it so you can't se it Teresa, but it will rot down & th eats the main thing.

As to your broad beans I have no Idea - were the pds OK or were there any holes in them? If they had holes in itcould be weevils that get in to lay eggs & the grub ate the young beans. The flowers obviously set as you had pods.

Sorry I can 't be of more help.

Welcome to the vine any way, I hope you enjoy it.

Bon nuit

[Teresa Sorokin]

There were no holes in the pods, no sign of anything having nibbled the contents, just nothing inside. I'm going to start them off this autumn as I've been told that's the best time - unfortunately I only tamed the ground late last spring so everything was delayed. I have to say though that the courgettes, beans and tomatoes did me proud as did the spuds. However I'll never cultivate 6 courgette plants again - I now have tons of chutney, relish, jam, soup and sauces, just a bit ott for just the 2 of us.

[nick the grief]

............However I'll never cultivate 6 courgette plants again - I now have tons of chutney, relish, jam, soup and sauces, just a bit ott for just the 2 of us.

Lol I fell for that on eas well when I first grew them. What you need is

What will I do with all those Courgettes by Elaine Borish


I may give you a few Ideas. Regarding the Beans, I have asolutely no idea. The only other thing I can think of is that you had a really hot spell or something & they couldn't make the seeds swell but thats a shot in the dark.

Still there is always another year, thats the beauty of this gradening lark.

[Hopalong]

I have just sown three of my nine raised beds with phacelia. In the spring I will trim it off at ground level and as my beds are all garden compost, well rotted manure they tend to need topping up so I mulch over the chopped green manure then simply plant through it. But the very BEST is in springtime any unused bed is soen with sunflower seed. Not the flowering type, I use the type bought from the pet shop for feeding parrots, and when it is about two/three feet tall I chop it off and bung it into the compost bin. It's probably the best compost bulk provider you can use. Hope this helps.
Hopalong

[Birdie Wife]

I'm trying clover for the first time, bit of an experiment and maybe I should have tried asking for advice first, but what the hey. I've seen pictures of cabbages thriving amongst flowering clover and from what I've read, onions also do well. What I'm going to try is a late sowing of clover with overwintering onions, then transplanting winter cabbages into the plot when the onions are over. The only problem I can see is that the back of the clover packet says I have to incorporate the clover into the soil before it flowers. I don't know if my onions will be ready before the clover starts flowering, probably not, so how am I going to dig in the clover between the onion plants? Or does it really matter? Any advice?

[Protea]

I'm trying clover for the first time, bit of an experiment and maybe I should have tried asking for advice first, but what the hey. I've seen pictures of cabbages thriving amongst flowering clover and from what I've read, onions also do well. What I'm going to try is a late sowing of clover with overwintering onions, then transplanting winter cabbages into the plot when the onions are over. The only problem I can see is that the back of the clover packet says I have to incorporate the clover into the soil before it flowers. I don't know if my onions will be ready before the clover starts flowering, probably not, so how am I going to dig in the clover between the onion plants? Or does it really matter? Any advice?

I would imagine the brassicas will do really well mixed with the clover (i want to do this too - where did you get your seed from?), the covering of green will help reduce cabbage root fly attack and smother weeds plus of course boosting the nitrogen content of the soil for the next crop.

A conference i went to recently looked at the ability of companion plants to reduce pest damage to crops - it seems that anything green near the 'crop' will confuse them - even plastic plants worked and pests laid eggs on these instead of the crop! (they were looking at brassicas in particular, so i'm assuming cabbage root fly was the pest - it was a while ago and i can't remember!)

With regards the onions - from what i've read it seems that onions don't like to compete with other plants which is why they should always be kept weed free (something i never manage), as you've said, incorporating the clover around the onions may be tricky (but also around the brassicas?) perhaps you could try 'topping' or mowing the clover to keep it growing for longer and to stop it flowering? does anyone know if you can mow clover?

[dexterdoglancashire]

Excellent article in November's GYO - thanks! Question: living up here in't North (Lancashire) would I be able to grow phacelia tanacetifolia? or would it be too cold? Thanks! DDL PS if its ok can anyone recommend a supplier?

[nick the grief]

be OK in the sumer DDT I don't think it is fully hardy so it may not overwinter depending if we get a cold winter or not.