Where to start growing on a plot of land...

[greenthumbbeginner]

To preface, my goal with the vege growing would be to become more and more self sufficient with the produce. Not going to happen any time soon I am sure but a longer term goal. I have been reading the excellent book of Self-sufficiency by John Seymour which is a great foundation I just thought to ask online to perhaps get some more suggestions to furnish that information already given in the book.

I have purchased around 2 acres and am a bit bewildered where to begin with what to sow and grow.

I have planted willows over quite a lot of it, on the wetter parts, for future use of the wood and just because woodland is nice for enjoyment, and also to soak up the bogginess.

I have left around 0.5 acres in the prime sun location with the idea to try and plant vegetables but not sure where to begin.

As above the land is I imagine mostly considered BAD, as it currently stands, from a growing perspective. Boggy and heavy clay however the sun spot I have left free of wood planting is somewhat less boggy.

It was historically agricultural land but had been left to grow wild for at least 14 years and maybe longer as that is all the information we got from previous owner.

So I guess I am starting from scratch.

On the patch I want to grow vege it is a mix of long grass and rushes growing. Not too mixed but rather mostly one or the other depending on the area. So if it is mostly grass that indicates better fertility if there is a lack of rushes right?

It is a south facing aspect on a gentle slope on one side of a valley so gets good amounts of sun once it reaches over the valley top on the other side and throughout the day.

I am thinking I could try some root vege like turnips and potatoes on the boggy part? Using the lazy bed technique? Then try some other stuff on the grassier parts.

Can you give me a few ideas of what I could plant right away and also for green manure so I could sow that and have it grow to suppress the wild grass and improve the soil while I figure out what I want to do with the rest.

I am thinking a few different veges suitable for spring now and green manure the rest of the vegetable areas until summer while I continue to learn what I could try to plant for 'prime time' in summer. Also maybe some wild flowers on the edges.

[Penellype]

What I would do is cut it all down as hard as you can, leaving the clippings on top, then cover the first area you want to use with a sheet of black plastic or cardboard. Leave it for a month or so, then cut holes in the cover and plant potatoes through them. Leave the cover in place. Then progress to the next area, and so on. You can plant various vegetables through holes in plastic - squashes and courgettes work well. By the time you remove the plastic (which you can reuse elsewhere) and harvest the crops, most if not all of the weeds will have died. I would then divide the area up into beds with paths in between to avoid treading on growing areas, and mulch the beds with plenty of compost to improve the soil.

You may find Charles Dowding's videos helpful - he has done a lot of reclaiming grassland using this method.

If you want to grow other veg this year which are not suitable for growing through plastic, such as peas, you could create a bed by a more traditional method of digging out the grass and weeds to give you a head start.

[Snoop Puss]

Hello and welcome, greenthumbbeginner. Sounds like a fantastic project.

Penellype has given you some great advice there. Which I might follow as I'm thinking of reclaiming a bit of very weedy land (mostly grass and vetch) as well. So thanks for asking your question. Be interesting to see how your project progresses this year and compare it with mine.

Good luck.

[gardenhistory2]

i get the soil tested to see what i am working with.

[greenthumbbeginner]

What I would do is cut it all down as hard as you can, leaving the clippings on top, then cover the first area you want to use with a sheet of black plastic or cardboard. Leave it for a month or so, then cut holes in the cover and plant potatoes through them. Leave the cover in place. Then progress to the next area, and so on. You can plant various vegetables through holes in plastic - squashes and courgettes work well. By the time you remove the plastic (which you can reuse elsewhere) and harvest the crops, most if not all of the weeds will have died. I would then divide the area up into beds with paths in between to avoid treading on growing areas, and mulch the beds with plenty of compost to improve the soil.

You may find Charles Dowding's videos helpful - he has done a lot of reclaiming grassland using this method.

If you want to grow other veg this year which are not suitable for growing through plastic, such as peas, you could create a bed by a more traditional method of digging out the grass and weeds to give you a head start.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Oh I am not against doing the hard graft digging up the soil myself by hand. I have done a bit already, but didn't have any seeds to plant. Don't mind it at all as long as I have a goal in mind which I didn't before.

I would be interested in legumes and I think peas are recommended even for not the best soil like mine?

The idea for green manure was to try and improve that clayey stuff but would the grass itself, if turned over, also acts as a manure too? I watched a video on making lazy beds and he said that if you turn the sods upside down then the grass won't grow back through.

Here is it:

I do like the idea of using 'traditional' methods especially those that were tried and tested for poorer soil types like mine.

I would prefer to avoid more plastic so would sooner use cardboard or first choice the elbow grease method of turning the soil over myself. It is good exercise so I don't mind it, when motivated by a specific goal, as mentioned.

Drainage is poor so that is why I was veering towards the lazy bed which is said to manage that issue too similarly to a raised bed but without needing to construct anything and just using the soil at your disposal to your advantage.

[ameno]

Rushes indicate waterlogging, not poor fertility, as rushes are a bog plant. So the areas with more rushes will be wetter.

If the land is frequently boggy then raised beds are probably your best best, as it will allow you to grow things raised up a few more inches above the water table, and thus with better drainage.

Or, if you really don't mind a bigger project, you could always dig some drainage ditches, and have them slope away from your growing area.

[Andraste]

Hi greenthumbbeginner

Welcome & congrats on your new project

Top advice from Penellype (as always). I vote for cardboard as it will help absorb some wetness & add browns to the soil as it breaks down. I've also had bad slug experiences with plastic & it might not aid evaporation as the weather warms?

I'd recommend field beans as a manure crop - I'll be sowing some myself later in the year.

spuds are a good plan as they'll break up the ground but I'm not sure roof veg will do well this year as they prefer a looser soil. A basic like lettuce won't mind poor ground. I'd try some French beans & runners - even if they don't crop well you can dig the plants in as green manure.

[rary]

I see you have a fair bit of moss in your garden which more than likely will be a bit acidic, I would cut the growth down then place potatoes in a row the length of your bed running the way the water would flow then turn the next spit of land on top of the potatoes, do the same on the with the rest of the bed till you have a a bed full of furrows this hopefully would allow the land to drain,( it may be worthwhile digging a soakaway at the end of you veg bed to help drain the land this of course is just a suggestion as its difficult to give the best advice without seeing the land) leeks, beetroot , carrotsare also a crops I would consider for your land, and doing the bed in the same way, the brasicca family which turnip is a member of may not grow too well if the ground is acidic, as for green manure, check your area and remove any perennial weeds, remember grass is a green manure as well,though if you have couch grass the best thing to do is cover it with layers of cardboard and paper then make a raised bed, if I remember correctly John Seymour avocated raised beds for veg gardens, I would be tempted to try growing peas and beans also though I woukd plant established plant rather than sowing direct, Huw Richards also has a book out about self-sufficiency, not sure what it costs, I'm waiting on it going into charity shops, I wish you well, please let us know what you finish up doing, and how things grow

[greenthumbbeginner]

Rushes indicate waterlogging, not poor fertility, as rushes are a bog plant. So the areas with more rushes will be wetter.

If the land is frequently boggy then raised beds are probably your best best, as it will allow you to grow things raised up a few more inches above the water table, and thus with better drainage.

Or, if you really don't mind a bigger project, you could always dig some drainage ditches, and have them slope away from your growing area.

Oh yes I have already started playing with ditch digging. It is not as simple as John Seymour makes out though. In the book he implies you just make a cutoff ditch at the top of a sloped field and that will allow drainage of the whole field, with some where for it to run off of course, as it the the water from above, not rainfall settling that causes the waterlogging.

Hasn't been my experience so far.

Maybe there are just small veins bursting through surreptitiously elsewhere in the field, which he does give techniques for dealing with so maybe it is not just one source.

What I had done to test so far is just dig a small cube out in random places and see if it has filled with water by the next day. Some will start filling almost immediately.

So thinking a simple way is to make waterways at regular intervals where they are filling until I can dig cubes in between and they no longer fill up.

I am interested to see what the willow will do to absorb it as I have done a band of them at the top of the slope where I plan to grow below so thinking they may act a sponge once they get established. We shall see.

[greenthumbbeginner]

Hi greenthumbbeginner

I'm not sure roof veg will do well this year as they prefer a looser soil. A basic like lettuce won't mind poor ground. I'd try some French beans & runners - even if they don't crop well you can dig the plants in as green manure.

Well in that video I linked that soil looks, or rather sounds pretty bad with how dense the rushes are but he seems to think that tatties would grow ok in the bed he made. You can hear rush roots tearing. My rush growth isn't even as dense as that so maybe there is hope.

[greenthumbbeginner]

Oh and it sounds like I can simplify things then and not bother with green manure crops at the moment? Just turn over the existing growth to act as manure?

Btw I am getting logged out as I am typing each reply within a couple of minutes before I even posted and asking to login again, any idea why that is?