Where to start growing on a plot of land...

[Penellype]

Grass turves can be used to create loam by stacking them in a heap and they rot down - I have done this myself when I created some beds in a garden that was almost all lawn and it does work, although you do get some grass growing back. I suspect if you turn the grass over some of it will rot and some will regrow, but it does depend on the type of grass (there are lots of different types). Annual grasses such as rye and meadow grass will rot down, perennials such as creeping fescue and couch will regrow from bits of root. If you turn a few bits you will see what the roots look like - anything that is long, straight and white is couch (or similar) and needs removing. Even so, turning or covering the grass will kill off the top growth and any annual plants and you will be able to make a better judgement of what is left.

I would agree with the suggestion of raised beds, even if you make them without sides (for an area your size making raised beds out of any edging material is going to be expensive). My allotment is very wet at the bottom end and my plants would have been under water for months if I had not used raised beds. If you have a very wet area it might be an idea to dig a wildlife pond, which will help attract beneficial creatures to your plot, and you can use the soil from the pond area to raise the level a bit elsewhere.

If the soil is poor and waterlogged, add as much compost and organic matter such as leaves as you can find. It may also help to add some sand to your beds to help open up the soil structure a bit, but I would concentrate on getting rid of the grass and planning your layout first.

[ameno]

I've found even couch will die as long as you bury it deep enough. It likes to be near the surface.
So if he has couch, I would recommend digging out turves and stacking them upside down as tall and narrow as possible, then covering with black plastic or tarpaulin (basically anything completely opaque and weather resistant). After a year or so the couch should all be dead, and the soil can be dug out and used again.

[gardenhistory2]

when you finally get it dugout and drained which spacing method do you plan on using.

[greenthumbbeginner]

when you finally get it dugout and drained which spacing method do you plan on using.

No idea as I don't know what spacing methods are. Just familiar with putting them in vague rows?

[Snoop Puss]

If you don't have any books on growing veg, you might find the Grow Your Own magazine growing guides useful, greenthumbbeginner:
https://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/guides/fruit
https://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/guides/vegetables
But if you prefer books, you might find this thread of interest: https://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gr...ardening-books

In general, plants like certain distances from each other to thrive, but that said gardeners enjoy a fair bit of flexibility, so long as we do things within reason. No growing caulis as close together as radishes, for example. What I really want to say is don't feel constrained to follow a prescriptive traditional system. Books like Grow Your Own Vegetables by Joy Larkham will give you details of the range of spacings that you can grow a particular plant type at. That's my preferred book, but lots of others will do exactly the same.

As for rows and blocks, sweetcorn does better in blocks as it's wind pollinated, but most plants are traditionally grown in rows, though this isn't an absolute rule in all cases. The spacings between each plant depend on the type of plant, your growing method (in rows or in blocks, meaning side-by-side spacings versus distances in all directions) and in some cases will even depend on how big you want your plant to grow. Cabbages, for example, will grow smaller if grown closer together than conventional spacings, which might suit a small household or family. And some people, me among them, like to grow certain types of plants in clusters rather than individually, say leeks and onions in my case, and clusters need different spacings to individual plants.

There are lots of people on here with practical experience of growing, as you'll have seen from the replies to your post. Plus we're a friendly bunch. So if you've got questions once you've started sorting out patches of ground for cultivation and you've got an idea what you want to grow, feel free to ask.

[Nicos]

^^^ brill advice there!

My favourite book is by Dr D G Hessayon . He died recently but his veggie growing book is absolutely basic info.
I still refer to it for planting distances.
There are all sorts of layouts for spacing, but if space isn’t a problem, you can’t go wrong with his advice.

Also- look into companion plants…important to know what grows well together and what are detrimental together.

With those in mind, and a 3or 4 year rotation…that's enough to be thinking about as far as planting is concerned.

Soil improvement and drainage should be your priority though as it will affect your crops for years to come.

Exciting times!

[gardenhistory2]

my favorite books are ;
square foot gardening mel bartholomew
and
How to Grow More Vegetables, jon jeason
both are very useful for beginers.

[greenthumbbeginner]

I will peruse the other replies in more detail presently but, to update, things are looking a lot different when I got here!

I had not been back for about a month and I had just taken it as a given the place would be waterlogged all year round to some degree as I first got it right in winter with the storms coming in back to back.

Well I got on yesterday and it seems like from one extreme to the other!

The land seems pretty baked and crumbly now. On the other hand there are large sections of rushes in two specific points so that does indicate that the land holds water for long periods through the year doesn't it? Also the whole field is mostly compacted clay which again would indicate lots of water over long periods of time right?

Seeing how dry it suddenly is has now made me wonder if I should modify my plans. Also the whole field benefits from direct sunlight whereas during winter there was only the top corner, which I was not sure how much it would change with the seasons. So the options seem to open up more with that in mind as to what may be able to grow.

Initially I thought I would plant loads of willow as it would be pretty rubbish ground for growing anything else but I wonder now do you think that is 'wasted' land then?

I do like woodland as well and willow I have gotten an interest in for other reasons and really like its quick growing and hardy properties so I would appreciate woodland regardless. It is a very versatile tree for using for weaving or as a hardwood and such from what I gather. That is way down the line though and would just like to enjoy having more woodland. I already have a small section of different species which is older and already established but wonder how much more I should go with.

I had considered maybe trying my hand at a cereal at some point which I read would require a fair bit of space.

Only thing I am thinking is it will be much more difficult to dig up willow once they are rooted won't it? I have planted about 1.5 acres approximately.

I gather that 0.5 acres would be plenty of space to be self-sufficient for food correct? Besides, more than that it would probably be difficult to manage alone?

Or should I release some more land in case I want something productive later such as the cereal idea, which would be my first choice at the moment?

I have read that willow growing does have its own soil nourishing properties so maybe not a wasted effort even if I did leave them and want to root up later? Something about a beneficial substance they release into the soil which aids growth of other plants too as it is retained in the soil after the willow are taken up.

With growing vege it is much easier because you can just let the previous crop go down no problems and start anew but the tree aspect does pose some more thought to the commitment to that once they establish themselves.

Eager to hear suggestions.

[greenthumbbeginner]

If you don't have any books on growing veg, you might find the Grow Your Own magazine growing guides useful,

There are lots of people on here with practical experience of growing, as you'll have seen from the replies to your post. Plus we're a friendly bunch. So if you've got questions once you've started sorting out patches of ground for cultivation and you've got an idea what you want to grow, feel free to ask.

Thanks.

Oh I think I mentioned it earlier that I have the John Seymour book of Self-sufficiency which seems rather exhaustive so I imagine the relevant spacing material will be in there too.

I forgot that I do actually have some experience in this area, it slipped my mind and I was reminded as I read your post. I have a couple of years experience having worked on a market garden as a volunteer and helped out through 2 full growing seasons and also the off season. So I have a good idea of the process.

As we got to pick our tasks I was not interested in planting at the time, preferring the 'hard labour' of bed prep and such but I do recall generally how each vege would be spaced. I would usually be one of the ones to do bed prep and someone else went in with the plants after.

[Andraste]

I'll leave more knowledgeable others to reply to your latest questions but the sopping wet to backed hard ground certainly sounds indicative of 'clay' ground behaviour (ours can get cracks in it that you could wiggle a finger in when it really dries out!).

The best course of action is the plan you already have - improve the soil as best you can, dig in well rotted manure if you can get your hands on some, ompost, green manures etc. - these will all improve drainage and soil nutrients year by year. I believe someone's already mentioned potential sand, drainage ditches etc. which are all likely to help in the 'wet' periods.

Now you know the sort of moisture fluctuation you might be dealing with it's easier to give a thought to what conditions your potential crops might prefer. I'm advised by others that know better then me that onions for example don't like to get too wet. From experience lettuce have a tendency to bolt if they dry out. Generally most things would prefer you give them water in dry conditions so I'd be having a little think about how you might (or might not) be able to irrigate/water when needed, especially as you have a fairly large piece of land to manage. There's a thread on the go currently about how people manage their watering needs which you might find interesting.

Edit to try to link the water storage thread:
https://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gr...r-storage-2025

[Snoop Puss]

Wow! What a change in outlook. Your plot sounds more promising than you initially suggested. A couple of wet pockets but otherwise grand. That said, I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm or ambition, but if I were in your shoes, I'd start slow and small and see how things go.

John Seymour paints a very rosy picture of self-sufficiency. I've read an edition of his book and live on what he would call a small-holding. I do not aspire to self-sufficiency as it would be a lot of hard work and extremely difficult to achieve. I have an Italian friend who looked at my land and was keen to grow corn for polenta till he thought about the effort involved. Not just the growing aspect but the processing after the harvest to produce usable polenta.

Don't take this amiss, but taking things more slowly would be a good idea. You've perhaps planted more willow than you would have done if you'd had a year-long picture of your land. Your vision of your plot has changed dramatically in just a few months.

My advice would be ameliorate ground for cultivation this spring and summer, as Andraste recommends, then a bit more over the next couple of months to put in your winter veg. You need to get year-round growing experience on your plot before thinking about self-sufficiency. Growing for year-long consumption takes a lot of planning and involves a bit more than putting plants in and then go again.

You can of course buy a lot of plants as plug plants, but it might be worth your while following this thread where people talk about the seeds they've sown so you can keep up with what they're doing and have plants ready to go in at the right time: https://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gr...25#post2593865

Good luck.