Where to start growing on a plot of land...

[greenthumbbeginner]

(if the ground is suitable)

I think that is the operative phrase eh? I don't know could they manage?

It is heavy clay as mentioned but south facing with pretty much unhampered sun throughout the day so that should play in its favour? Would it be enough to override the clay situation as I read they don't like that?

They aren't cheap for a few year old trees either, which I think I would prefer to buy, so wouldn't want to invest hundreds on trees and they all died. If you all reckon they might be ok seems worth a punt.

What is funny is that the higher points, which are two crests, are where the largest amounts of reeds are, yet in the dip between the two, where there was even a stream trickling into the land, has no reeds to speak of and mostly just the long whispy grass which is mostly dead now and turned to hay.

I have not seen water sources where the reeds are so seems strange as I would have expected the opposite and for them to gather around where the stream exits.

Anyhow I spent the last couple of days digging a trench to direct that little stream through the middle of the land and have it going out nearer the bottom where the willows are. So will be great for drainage I guess as before it was constantly soaking into the whole field, in that area at least and it is in a king of bowl, or depression, I don't think that accounts for the water through the whole field.

There is another one that exits right at the bottom but unsure where it runs under the ground.

Although I thought it might be the runoff from this one I notice it hasn't dried up, the other one having been diverted more than 24 hours ago, so guess it has it's own source but not sure its trajectory under the land.

[greenthumbbeginner]

Sounds like you have a really good plan, then. Brilliant.

My Seymour edition is very gung-ho, especially in the section about livestock.

Ah that might be the reason for differing views then, I don't eat meat so have not read that section!

I knew from the start it would be hard graft. I think I have a fairly good idea having worked on the market garden what was involved.

I found it rewarding work then and am finding the same now. The hours fly by when tasks are at hand.

Anyhow I took the plunge today and bought a bunch of seeds. Very cheap so not a big deal to do some experimenting! The most expensive item are the potatoes which I could not buy seeds for. Why is that? They must have started from seeds once? Chicken or the eggs type thing? I had to buy the 'seed potatoes'.

I just had a quite browse around for what grows in spring as well as what John Seymour recommends in his book and have gone with some strawberries, beans, peas, turnips, and potatoes. Apart from the potatoes got a couple varieties of each of the others and got 'first earlies' where I saw them.

[greenthumbbeginner]

Oh and btw I appreciate the helpful and encouraging replies from people so far.

Seems like friendly folks here.

[Nicos]

^^^^ you are welcome!
And yes, we are

Exciting times ahead for you…remember to take photos…you’ll regret it if you don’t in years to come

[Penellype]

This video covers the main points when planting a tree in clay soil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEJdiyYZ6nQ. I think as long as you choose a site which is not waterlogged, mixing plenty of organic material, plant the tree on a slight mound and mulch it without covering the bottom of the trunk with the mulch you will probably be ok. If you are planting apple trees, some varieties are more tolerant of clay soil than others, so do a bit of research and choose your trees carefully.

With regard to potato seeds, you can grow potato plants from seed, but I'm not sure if you would get a decent crop in the first year. The main reason for growing potatoes from seed potatoes (rather than seeds) is that you are growing a clone of a known variety (genetically identical), with specific characteristics. If you grow potatoes from seeds each seed is genetically unique and you don't know what you are going to get. It is therefore much more reliable to use seed potatoes. If you find a variety you particularly like you can keep some potatoes to use as seed potatoes next year as long as they are not diseased. This is not recommended by books, but I have grown potatoes from saved tubers for the past 5 years with no apparent problems.

[greenthumbbeginner]

This video covers the main points when planting a tree in clay soil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEJdiyYZ6nQ. I think as long as you choose a site which is not waterlogged, mixing plenty of organic material, plant the tree on a slight mound and mulch it without covering the bottom of the trunk with the mulch you will probably be ok. If you are planting apple trees, some varieties are more tolerant of clay soil than others, so do a bit of research and choose your trees carefully.

Thanks, looks straight forward enough.

Oh btw I have quite a bit of, what I have learned is called, leaf mould which is under the big mature willow. Must be almost a foot deep and maybe 8ft wide under the tree so I gather that will serve as good existing compost for plants or trees?

There is also a big pile of rotting brash that has been here about a year. Very varied material there as mostly small trees but also I suppose remain of the plant matter as well because I think they just came with machinery and just indiscriminately scraped it up into a couple of piles.

So I guess some of that will be useful too? Very tangled though and will take some working through due to all different types of material.

With regard to potato seeds, you can grow potato plants from seed, but I'm not sure if you would get a decent crop in the first year. The main reason for growing potatoes from seed potatoes (rather than seeds) is that you are growing a clone of a known variety (genetically identical), with specific characteristics. If you grow potatoes from seeds each seed is genetically unique and you don't know what you are going to get. It is therefore much more reliable to use seed potatoes. If you find a variety you particularly like you can keep some potatoes to use as seed potatoes next year as long as they are not diseased. This is not recommended by books, but I have grown potatoes from saved tubers for the past 5 years with no apparent problems.

Hmm so each seed has a different genetic code and the seed potatoes each potato would be of the same genetic profile as the single seed?

Come to think of it I can't recall having seen a potato seed, where are they on the plant? When I look it up I, predictably, am only seeing results for 'seed potatoes' which are the most popular thing.

Ah, ok some more quick research indicates 'true potato seeds' are the actual seeds.

[Andraste]

You should get better results/info searching for "true potato seeds" (using the quotations in the search engine). There's also a very old thread here where there might be a few nuggets of interest: https://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gr...periment-thing

[Penellype]

Thanks, looks straight forward enough.

Oh btw I have quite a bit of, what I have learned is called, leaf mould which is under the big mature willow. Must be almost a foot deep and maybe 8ft wide under the tree so I gather that will serve as good existing compost for plants or trees?

There is also a big pile of rotting brash that has been here about a year. Very varied material there as mostly small trees but also I suppose remain of the plant matter as well because I think they just came with machinery and just indiscriminately scraped it up into a couple of piles.

So I guess some of that will be useful too? Very tangled though and will take some working through due to all different types of material.



Hmm so each seed has a different genetic code and the seed potatoes each potato would be of the same genetic profile as the single seed?

Come to think of it I can't recall having seen a potato seed, where are they on the plant? When I look it up I, predictably, am only seeing results for 'seed potatoes' which are the most popular thing.

Ah, ok some more quick research indicates 'true potato seeds' are the actual seeds.

Leaf mould makes a great mulch. It doesn't contain much nitrogen so it isn't a fertilizer, but it is good for improving the soil and the worms will pull it down and mix it in.

It depends a bit what your pile of "brash" contains. If it is mainly wood, again use it as a mulch, Wood uses nitrogen as it rots down, so if you dig it in it will rob the soil of nitrogen that plants would otherwise be able to use. I would make sure it is fairly well chopped up (a shredder might help), but don't use any brambles that are mixed in with it as they will root and grow and are very hard to remove, particularly among trees. Alternatively it if contains fairly large chunks of wood and branches you could leave it in a pile as wildlife such as hedgehogs like to live in that sort of thing.

Potatoes produce flowers, which develop into seed pods that look a bit like small green tomatoes if the flowers are fertilized. Do not eat them - they are poisonous (as are green potatoes). Many gardeners remove the seed pods, believing that they use energy the plant would otherwise be able to use to make bigger potatoes. It makes sense, although I have never seen any conclusive evidence supporting it.

[greenthumbbeginner]

Leaf mould makes a great mulch. It doesn't contain much nitrogen so it isn't a fertilizer, but it is good for improving the soil and the worms will pull it down and mix it in.

It depends a bit what your pile of "brash" contains. If it is mainly wood, again use it as a mulch, Wood uses nitrogen as it rots down, so if you dig it in it will rob the soil of nitrogen that plants would otherwise be able to use. I would make sure it is fairly well chopped up (a shredder might help), but don't use any brambles that are mixed in with it as they will root and grow and are very hard to remove, particularly among trees. Alternatively it if contains fairly large chunks of wood and branches you could leave it in a pile as wildlife such as hedgehogs like to live in that sort of thing.

Potatoes produce flowers, which develop into seed pods that look a bit like small green tomatoes if the flowers are fertilized. Do not eat them - they are poisonous (as are green potatoes). Many gardeners remove the seed pods, believing that they use energy the plant would otherwise be able to use to make bigger potatoes. It makes sense, although I have never seen any conclusive evidence supporting it.

Oh thanks for mentioned that about brambles. I think a lot is some dark brown thin thorny bush, not sure what the proper name for it so maybe that would apply too.

Perhaps better to leave that stuff then and just use the leaf mould for soil improvement. They say, do they not, that the clay soil itself retains nutrients so perhaps that will be good enough nutrient wise?

The seeds only cost a few quid so no great investment and might as well see what I can get out of the existing soil as is before looking at any more involved soil improvement methods.

Anyway, I was taking the idea of green manure as self made fertilizer should I want to do that sometime. Interested to see how it will perform as is first and still in spring so I take this as the 'tester'. Well it is all a test and don't mind if the whole year I don't grow any produce, though it would be nice if I did, I just mean I don't have high expectations and just taking it as learning.

[Penellype]

Gardening is always a case of trial and error, because everyone has different conditions, so what grows well for me may well not grow well for you. I treat the whole thing as an ongoing experiment and there is always more to learn.

[ChingfordHarry]

While I'm not in any way an expert, I do like my apple trees (I've got around 20 different varieties at the moment) - and don't like to pay an arm and a leg. So I graft my own - I've had the varieties I want from either a local orchard or from Brogdale (the national fruit collection). Scions from the latter are (from memory) about £5 each (my local orchard gave me the material, as it would otherwise be waste from pruning) - if you propagate by chip budding, you can easily get 10-12 trees from a single scion, as opposed to perhaps 2 or 3 if you go for more traditional grafting.

I've found that GB Online has a really good variety of apple rootstocks and good information on each of them, along with suitability for different types of soil. Unfortunately, they've sold out for this year but this does give you plenty of time to learn about your ground before committing yourself (I think they are about £3 each this year). I've never grown my own rootstock, but from what I've read it isn't hard (having said that, most fruit trees that we grow in UK will produce suckers which are true to the rootstock, and these can be cut off and potted on).

It is much harder to find a wide variety of rootstock for fruit other than apple, which is why I haven't said anything about them.

I'd rather have apples than willows any day!

[greenthumbbeginner]

While I'm not in any way an expert, I do like my apple trees (I've got around 20 different varieties at the moment) - and don't like to pay an arm and a leg. So I graft my own - I've had the varieties I want from either a local orchard or from Brogdale (the national fruit collection). Scions from the latter are (from memory) about £5 each (my local orchard gave me the material, as it would otherwise be waste from pruning) - if you propagate by chip budding, you can easily get 10-12 trees from a single scion, as opposed to perhaps 2 or 3 if you go for more traditional grafting.

I've found that GB Online has a really good variety of apple rootstocks and good information on each of them, along with suitability for different types of soil. Unfortunately, they've sold out for this year but this does give you plenty of time to learn about your ground before committing yourself (I think they are about £3 each this year). I've never grown my own rootstock, but from what I've read it isn't hard (having said that, most fruit trees that we grow in UK will produce suckers which are true to the rootstock, and these can be cut off and potted on).

It is much harder to find a wide variety of rootstock for fruit other than apple, which is why I haven't said anything about them.

I'd rather have apples than willows any day!

Hmm will have to look up some of that terminology.

Well it is a time vs money thing. The John Seymour book recommends getting trees a few years old as they will bear fruit quicker, though even still not within the first couple of years probably. I imagine if growing from tiny cuttings you would be looking at close to a decade???

Trees that were 3 years old were selling for about £100 each from what I recall. Not cheap but I would much prefer spend a few hundred quid to shave of half a decade or so of waiting time to bear fruit!

As for the willow I am thinking now move them to the perimeter to make a hedge/windbreak/shelterbelt. Good idea? I am guessing I can space them very tightly in this case, perhaps only 20-30cm apart?

The existing hedge is terribly patchy and huge gaps in many places. Rather than fill this hedge out I am thinking re-plant the willows further in so that then I won't be obligated to cut them back like I am with the hedgerow that butts onto the road.

Then cover the inner land with green manure crops for any places I haven't decided what I want to grow yet.