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  • #16
    This was written a few days ago, by me, for someone who wanted to know which crops liked soggy clay...just to put the text into context....

    The thing with clay is...
    When it is wet it behaves like a liquid
    as it dries out it behaves like a plastic [ideal]
    then as it dries out even more it behaves like a solid.

    To try and keep it in the middle, you have to add sand and granular to try and drain it when it is too wet, and organic to keep the moisture in when it is too dry.

    Using raised beds are a good way round it, as the clay will hold the moisture under the beds all summer long.

    Did you know that they use clay to line landfill sites to keep the yukky landfill generated gunk out of the water table?

    They also will use lime to stabilise clay when the ground is too wet...the lime will generate heat which basically boils off the excess water, thereby drying the soil out and making it behave more like a solid than a liquid. [lime stabilisation if anyone wants to look it up].

    I also believe that gypsum is used in gardening to help make clay more manageable.

    I don't think you would get enough crops to make it worthwhile if you just grow crops that like wet clay...you need to take steps to make your clay more useable - in the meantime, if you can't add bulk manure/compost - you can add compost to the holes as you plant things, and use a newspaper/cardboard mulch to plant through. Once the crops are done, the paper/card adds much needed organic to the soil. Also, use home made compost to mulch and earth spuds up - and the bean trench technique could potentially be used on a few other crops than just beans.

    This year, year 2 on our clay lottie, I have saved loads of boxes and have started laying them straight onto the soil - opened out. They are held down with bricks and wood. In a few weeks they will be wet enough to tear holes through, and I'll plant both brassicas and potatoes through them and mulch/earth up with home made compost. This worked really well last year using newspapers and I want an organic boost this year.

    Also, have a look as to what others are doing to grow successful veg around your way. If there's anything interesting, do let us know.

    Clay is the most common soil around, and plenty of us get great crops - so don't let it phase you. It's also a great starting point for good gardening.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by snohare View Post
      Clay is basically small gritty soil particles like sand, but with a different chemical structure that makes them clump together in microscopic lumps glued together by a tiny membrane of moisture, and excludes air and a higher percentage of water than most soils.
      Can I just expand, clay particles are plate shaped and much smaller than sand - and because they are plate shaped this is why the moisture takes so long to drain through - it has to go around each plate and the plates basically stick together like capilliary action - so as soon as there is too much water, the plates break away and slip all over the place which is why clay is so fluid when wet.

      [14 years of Geotechnical/Soil engineering and working with materials as an engineer].
      Last edited by zazen999; 23-02-2009, 08:31 AM.

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      • #18
        You can still buy 'clay breaker' which is probably what you've heard about.

        Clay is only really workable for a few weeks a year - it may just still be too early for you. As others have said, organic matter is the best thing (try to get it on in the Autumn this year).

        But clay holds nutrients beter than any other soil so it is a good thing for a veg bed. I'm on clay too.

        Good luck!
        Growing in the Garden of England

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        • #19
          Hi ALL some great feed back and very good explanations to assist me I have some horse muck rotting but it has lots of straw in it.

          I have some spuds starting to sprout ready.

          I think I will attempt a combination of the methods above and try and use them as a way to split the use of the plot for this year.

          I would like to get some veg from it this year.

          I have been asking about spuds and they all say blite is a big problem down on the site so we will have to see.

          I intend to look into some methods to try and stop this but a few have said they have tried everything and nothing had worked so far?

          Thanks for the great response anymore ideas would be great also.

          Cheers
          After all the digging needed to keep the weeds down yes that will be me one day.
          Just started on the plot or was that loosing the plot.

          Keen to learn.

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          • #20
            Thanks for the laugh Nog, I have been digging allotments at WOODCOTE on the top of the Chilterns for 34 years now, and yes, I've still got heavy clay, but at least it's fertile. The answer is to keep on doing the right things and be patient.

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            • #21
              keep on doing the right things and be patient
              That would be an orthopaedic patient ?
              I have never been so glad to have sandy loam !!
              There's no point reading history if you don't use the lessons it teaches.

              Head-hunted member of the Nutter's Club - can I get my cranium back please ?

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              • #22
                Improving Clay

                As you can imagine having a garden on clay is a nightmare at this time of year, however I have started to improve the soil with a thick layer of compost that I've now dug in, my question is do I now add a layer on top as mulch or just leave as it is?

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                • #23
                  Just merging the Clay Soil queries.

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                  • #24
                    how to break clay soil

                    I have had my allotment for two years now and am stiil stuggling to combat heavy clay soil and was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on how to sort it out

                    many thanks
                    pumpkingrower

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                    • #25
                      I've merged your question with another - have a read through and see if it helps

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                      • #26
                        Never try and work clay soil when it's wet, you'll end up as tall as me.

                        Oh, another benefit of coffee grinds is that slugs hate it.
                        A simple dude trying to grow veg. http://haywayne.blogspot.com/

                        BLOG UPDATED! http://haywayne.blogspot.com/2012/01...ar-demand.html 30/01/2012

                        Practise makes us a little better, it doesn't make us perfect.


                        What would Vedder do?

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                        • #27
                          HI Folks..really interesting subject & I have a quick question please.......

                          I have just got a new allotment & the soil looks fab!
                          BUT
                          at home, I want to grow salad stuffs - for easy access.....CLAY, solid or what!
                          I have dug a square & used pallets to edge ( making a bed area ) . I want to grow salads for this summer, but need to break down the clay asap, so that I can sow seeds.

                          If I put cardboard & newspapers down and some semi rotted compost/veg waste & water it all - will this help? and will it all rot down in time for me to grow my salads????

                          Is there anything else I can do to improve the soil ( I am on a tight budget - so buyingin fertilisers etc is not an ption at the mo).

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                          • #28
                            Can't add much to what has already been said about improving clay. There's no quick fix. Best thing is to get as much organic material as you can and let the worms get busy. Don't expect much in the short term. You can't put down too much organic material, get it where you can, when you can, as much as you can.

                            For the short term I would use the pallets to make a raised platform and then grow your salad in compost in containers on the platform. This will get them off the ground and away from the slugs.

                            I salvage throw away plastic containers from skips and the like. You can also try vegetable sellers and markets. Drill holes if they are watertight, line them with newspaper or cardboard if they are basket type or have holes which are too big.

                            You can get six lettuces into a container, spring onions, salad leaves and the like.

                            You could fill up your square with compost and grow it in that, but might be expensive.

                            Best of luck

                            Rob

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                            • #29
                              Can I just put in a good word for clay??

                              When it is wet you cannot dig, when it is dry you cannot dig - I know it is a pain in the arse to dig, but it's good stuff, honest!

                              In my garden I have builder's red clay almost immediately below the lawn and I tried digging it but it was a nightmare and I decided not to dig again, at least not for another 5 years or so lol. The second bed I made was made by laying cardboard down to kill grass and weeds in year 1 and then adding home-made compost and leaves and things in year 2. I am still in year 2 but this bed is growing all my spring flowers beautifully - we'll see how it goes with veg when I plant some out in the next few weeks!! Having said that, even one year of cultivation on the bed I did dig (I grew spuds) improved the soil and I will keep adding organic matter even if it is a no-dig bed!

                              In my little patch at the city farm, the soil is clay but has been cultivated a bit and is workable (at least if it is not too dry and not too wet). We dug it over, removed weeds, added loads of manure, grew stuff on it and dug it over again - the improvement was noticeable even after just 1 season.

                              At my proper allotment, one end has been cultivated more than the other since the previous occupant only really used one end. That end is absolutely beautiful, rich soil. The other end is cloddy and lumpy and horrible BUT seeing what a difference it has made where the soil has been used and cultivated gives me great hope that the rest of my plot will be just as good after a few years of care.

                              I do have one tip not yet mentioned... I have noticed that wherever nettles grow in profusion, when I have dug them up the soil underneath has been wonderful. I do not know if this is because nettles only grow in lovely soil, or if the nettles actually break up and improve the soil, but I reckon it may be the latter. So if you encourage nettles to grow this might help?! I imagine it works in much the same way as other green manures with strong root systems, with the advantage that the roots grow near the surface, rather than deep into the soil, so they break up specifically the top soil?
                              Warning: I have a dangerous tendency to act like I know what I'm talking about.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Widgetgirl View Post
                                As you can imagine having a garden on clay is a nightmare at this time of year, however I have started to improve the soil with a thick layer of compost that I've now dug in, my question is do I now add a layer on top as mulch or just leave as it is?
                                If you've got it - add it. The more organic matter you can add the better
                                Warning: I have a dangerous tendency to act like I know what I'm talking about.

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