Rotation/companion planting

[Dottie]

I'm very into the whole idea of companion planting, incorporating herbs and flowers, as well as onion with carrots.

But I'm a little confused with some recent reading about veg and their companions, as there is no mention of how it fits or otherwise, into the rotation system?

For example, broccoli, cauliflower and cabbage with potato or onions.

I don't have a problem with classic companions like summer squash and sweetcorn, because they can go in any bed anyway.

But I thought the whole point of rotation was to have a 3 or 4 year gap with spuds, brassicas, roots and onions?

[sewer rat]

I'm very into the whole idea of companion planting, incorporating herbs and flowers, as well as onion with carrots.

But I'm a little confused with some recent reading about veg and their companions, as there is no mention of how it fits or otherwise, into the rotation system?

For example, broccoli, cauliflower and cabbage with potato or onions.

I don't have a problem with classic companions like summer squash and sweetcorn, because they can go in any bed anyway.

But I thought the whole point of rotation was to have a 3 or 4 year gap with spuds, brassicas, roots and onions?

Companion planting does not necessarily mean that the plants have to be immediately next to each other, but the theory is that they will thrive and perform better if planted close to plants shown as good companions. More important than knowing what plants make good companions is knowing what lants to avoid having next to each other. I used to have a list of good and bad companions for veg but don't know where on my system it is - will have a hunt and send it to you via PM if I can find it.

[ruthiebaby]

Hi,
I would be interested in that list as well. I am also confused about companion planting. Some books say it is using flowers and herbs and other plants to improve conditins, and some mention mixing veg, but again, what about crop rotation? And on that note, I've just heard of 'square foot gardening', and that you don't need toworry too much about rotation with this. Anyone out there know any more?

[Two_Sheds]

Anyone out there know any more?

Um, Google knows
Companion Planting

[Two_Sheds]

Companion planting is quite a broad subject ... you need to sit down with a book really and have a good ponder.
this is a classic: Carrots Love Tomatoes: Secrets of Companion Planting for Successful Gardening: Amazon.co.uk: Louise Riotte: Books

[Dottie]

I've already sat down and read books on companion planting and that's why I'm now confused. The most recent book is Richard Bird - Companion Planting.

In it he devotes a few pages to crop rotation, giving the usual explanations and diagrams, all very clear. But these pages are a chapter on their own, there is no mention of how this fits in with companion planting, once you start using different groups of veg as companions. It does fit in terms of keeping pests and diseases down by rotating crops, but I would have thought most folk who are searching through specialist books like this, are already aware of the importance of crop rotation.

In different chapters there are very good lists of good and bad companions, separate pages for veg and herbs. All seem very informative, until you consider crop rotation. Lots of information, but it seems likely that he's just pasted in stuff from all his other books. So each section is very informative and interesting in it's own right, and follow the common theme of avoiding pests, but I feel it lacks clarity when it comes to vegetable companionship.

[Dottie]

Companion planting does not necessarily mean that the plants have to be immediately next to each other, but the theory is that they will thrive and perform better if planted close to plants shown as good companions. More important than knowing what plants make good companions is knowing what lants to avoid having next to each other. I used to have a list of good and bad companions for veg but don't know where on my system it is - will have a hunt and send it to you via PM if I can find it.

Good point. As I have a raised bed system, I suppose there is potential to plant up a companion veg in a large pot and place next to the bed. That way crop rotation wouldn't be affected, but as pots need lots more watering, it's wouldn't be easy if not at the plot every couple of days in summer.

[zazen999]

Hi Dottie

It is indeed a mindblowing load of info to absorb.

I keep it simple - and keep mine in 4 distinct groups:
spuds, legumes, brassicas and roots.

I interplant companion plants through the year.

I think you've got to plan out your rotation, and using the info you've got - decide which crops you will grow together and keep them together through the crop rotation cycles.

Onions will always be sown with carrots in my plots, and tomatoes always with basil and tagetes.

If it doesn't work for you, then change it.

Although I get alot of info from books and here, the only way to learn and make decisions in the long run is to try it and see if it works for you.

[Dottie]

Hi Zazen999

I agree with all of the above and keep my groups separate, all nice and simple when I've just incorporated marigolds and basil etc.

But the bit I'm finding difficult to get my head around, is when they list good veg companions, like brassicas with spuds and onions. It's like a separate test has been done and found to ward off certain pests, but that the testers failed to then take into account the basic rule of rotation.

Sounds like I should stick with the tried and tested rotation system and just take tip bits from some of the companion planting books. Although I'm looking forward to finding a book that actually takes on board and refers to both systems, within the same context and same chapter.

[zazen999]

Aye, but not everyone rotates!

[Eyren]

I think you've got to plan out your rotation, and using the info you've got - decide which crops you will grow together and keep them together through the crop rotation cycles.

Onions will always be sown with carrots in my plots, and tomatoes always with basil and tagetes.

Same here!

Planning a rotation/companion system seems really complicated, but it's not that bad, honest! Just remember:

1. The main veg that really need to be rotated are brassicas, onions and potatoes, as they are most prone to soil problems. Just make sure these groups are in a different spot each year and you're halfway there! However if you combine brassicas with either spuds or onions, you'll need at least two other veg groups taking up a similar amount of ground to ensure a decent rotation period. Given that brassicas and potatoes both use up a lot of space, that could be tricky!

2. Most companion herbs and flowers are unrelated to your veg plants, so you don't have to worry about soil disease - you can have marigolds, etc, in several of your rotation groups if you like

3. Ditto squash, pumpkins, lettuce and spinach - slot them in wherever you have space

4. Onions go with just about anything except legumes - like Zazen I put them mainly with carrots, as they like similar soil conditions and both groups make small plants so you can get a lot in a limited space (I've also grown garlic with tomatoes, with great success)

Overall I think it's best to get the main veg groups right first, then slot in any companion herbs where there's space

[Dottie]

Aye, but not everyone rotates!

You mean not rotate by choice? Surely that's asking for trouble?

Anyway thanks everyone for all your comments, which have been noted, it's a bit like being in a seminar. It confirms my thoughts that rotation is the first priority and then incorporate companion plants and any other ideas, if it fits in with the rotation system.

I suppose my confusion or maybe frustration, came from unclear info and finding books wanting, as I am as passionate about books as I am about my allotment. Maybe a case of having higher expectations than some authors deliver, plus if it was the first book I'd read on the subject I might have found it more enlightening.

[IgglePiggle]

Wiki has quite a good list

List of companion plants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia