Black plastic? Carpet? UGHHHHHH!!!

[Claire72]

Black plastic is fairly environmentally friendly really when you consider that
a. you can reuse it again and again
b. it takes years to break down, so can be used for years, and does not leech into the ground
c. it allows gardeners who are hard pressed for time, grow beneficial veg during their free hours, instead of spending all their time digging up weeds.


I would love to stay home all day and tend to my veg plot, however, I simply could not afford to. I grow veg because I believe that it will be beneficial to my kids to eat veg which has been grown organically as possible.

Well done you if you manage to do everything, my days simply do not have that many hours

[BrideXIII]

* puts her hard put upon hand in the air* carpet although it's carpet on top of good poo, but if you have all day every day to weed, then fine for you, i will stick to my carpet, it is wool, on hessian, all organic i promise

[Snadger]

Mmmmmmmm.......was beginning to think I was a lone voice in the wilderness with regard to black plastic mulch!....... Pah!!!!

To my mind it is very unsightly and often used by plotholders as an excuse for not tending their plot! Cover it with black plastic.........usually with a couple of pallets chucked on top and a breeze block or two for good measure........leave it for a couple of years and it will keep the allotment committee of my back!
Usually when the plastic is lifted all that can be seen is a roadmap of pernicious roots which have thrived under the damp humid environment!

I'm 100% FOR organic mulches like newspaper,cardboard,straw,manure etc but 100% against unsightly black plastic or worse still, old carpet.

Thought it was maybe my age or something.........so glad to see some people agree!

[snohare]

If I could just get the straw to go underneath cardboard, you'd never see black plastic on my plot. Sadly, the bus drivers hereabouts are not likely to let me on with any bales...even supposing there was anywhere handy that I could get it. I agree with all that Plotman says - and everyone else, btw !
But I have to admit, despite all that I've read about endocrine-disrupting plasticisers (and don't be so sure they are not leaching into your soil - how lucky do you feel ? Read up on Bisphenol A) planting through Mycotex and other weed suppressing membranes is terribly, perniciously, damnably convenient.
The love of anything convenient - it is the downfall of humankind, time and again...

[BrideXIII]

Mmmmmmmm.......was beginning to think I was a lone voice in the wilderness with regard to black plastic mulch!....... Pah!!!!

To my mind it is very unsightly and often used by plotholders as an excuse for not tending their plot! Cover it with black plastic.........usually with a couple of pallets chucked on top and a breeze block or two for good measure........leave it for a couple of years and it will keep the allotment committee of my back!
Usually when the plastic is lifted all that can be seen is a roadmap of pernicious roots which have thrived under the damp humid environment!

I'm 100% FOR organic mulches like newspaper,cardboard,straw,manure etc but 100% against unsightly black plastic or worse still, old carpet.

Thought it was maybe my age or something.........so glad to see some people agree!

OK OK...............i give, can i point out i use carpet at home!!!!, and if and when i get an allotment i would never consider using carpet OR membrane (cost too prohibitive) what i do in the privacy of my back garden is my business, an allotment i have other responsibilities.

can i has kittens now?

[snohare]

Well...I think we can all say we have well and truly been had up on the carpet !

[Paulottie]

Dear ....evidently... 'lost the' plotman. calm down and have a chamomile tea.

Firstly, I don't 'so call' myself a jump on the bandwagon; my poo don't smell; johnny come lately; 'organic' gardener. I just chose not to use chemicals (7/8 years ago) and I make a few efforts to encourage wildlife.(including the many slow worms under the plastic.)

Carpet, apart from leaching nasties becomes a problem when it has grown in. It can ruin the land and should not be allowed on allotments at all. Cardboard is not a good alternative as it is not permeable and suffocates the soil.

I have used Mypex to clear land. Great stuff, It is permeable and good to plant through and really no more unattractive than polytunnels (my pet hate) or fleece, or a bramble patch. After two years or so - what weeds are left are severely weakened and a good traditional mulch suppresses the annuals. The sheeting is left off for a bit to allow the birds and weather and then planted through again. It is not perfect but whilst I agree that it is not a good long term prospect for your soil.... it certainly gets you started and winning against the perennial nasties without the need for weedkillers. I then reverted to traditional beds with a few permanent beds and paths.

I have two allotments and a veg garden - that I prefer to dig by hand. I consider myself very fortunate to have the time and good health to do so. They are neat, weed free, aesthetically pleasing, well cultivated and mulched and very productive.

I now have little use for the membrane and give it away to newcomers ...Once they get over that initial hurdle I find they stay on rather than quit after being sore and disillusioned when the couch grows back faster than their plants establish....a familiar sight over the years. Plastic weave is not a substitute for work or exercise...it just gives you a fighting chance....and I assure you the veg will taste as good if you use your brain as well as your brawn.

I accept what you say Snadger... about covered and unused plots...the land should contractually 'be manured and productive' thus your manager should move them on.

[selfheal]

im currently using coconut matting (once lived a life as marquee flooring but now its got a new lease of life) to cover as much of my plot as possible.

I am stuck really- ground is still too wet to dig as its heavy clay, but the plot is brand new and was rotovated by a tractor new years eve. Totally infested with couch grass- i had to get the soil covered because the couch grass was showing signs of growing back with avengange. i needed a way to block out the light as much as possible as i cant even touch the soil at the moment with it being so claggy.

the matting seems pretty decent though. As far as im aware not so many of the nasty chemicals as in carpets and it wont be staying there long term, although i am consdiering cutting it into strips to lay on my footpaths until i can get second hand paving slabs in to form a path. its like somme at the moment if you walk on the soil bare.

Sometimes needs must im afraid... visually it looks fine- you can barely see it from a distance as it blends with the soil. it doesnt need wieghing down too much as its so heavy, and its doing a good job of keeping the light off whilst letting the rain through. I wish i knew more about the chemicals but seeing how its not dyed or processed like carpet is im guessing it cant be half as bad.

[Eyren]

Once they get over that initial hurdle I find they stay on rather than quit after being sore and disillusioned when the couch grows back faster than their plants establish....

Indeed. Couch grass is the spawn of the devil!

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=quitch&db=luna

[Snadger]

OK OK...............i give, can i point out i use carpet at home!!!!........................

Aaaah! So you're not a laminate flooring devotee?

[Stacey Steve]

I've used weed membrane in abundance!

On the veg plot it has covered most of it while I saved my pennies for timber for the raised beds. Systematically working my way up the plot, about 3/4 now done.

The fruit cage (just over half a plot) has membrane and chippings down between raised beds for the soft fruit.

The areas under my shed and greenhouses are membrane with chippings (less mud traipsed about)

I fenced my plots, keeping 1/2m inside my boundaries, the 1/2m is covered in membrane as a "firewall" for the encroaching weeds from other plots.

I love the stuff and most of the other plot holders (even the "old boys") think I've done a wonderful job considering the state of them when I got them.

I often say my plots are a testiment to fabric and cable ties!

Each to their own I suppose.

[womble]

I tried the other way and it just took up too much time, the weeds exploded and I just couldn't keep up.
I've got black plastic warming up my to be potato bed (salvaged from a skip) and a secondhand tarpaulin covering up an area that is to be dug and made into a productive area later in the season.
Couch grass is a PITA here and I use the covering to help me deal with it.
Cardboard covers up ready to go raised beds.

I went to the Centre for Alternative Technology in Wales the other day and all of their extensive veg plots were covered in old tarpaulins and plastic. If its good enough for them...

[gojiberry]

I would have thought that using newspapers would over a period of time put more chemicals into the soil than a piece of old carpet. The carpet was on the plot when I took it over and I have had the plot ten years. How many newspapers would I have had to put down to keep the weeds down over a ten year period?? I have tried cardboard but found it very dangerous as when it starts to break down and gets wet it is very very slippery.
P.S. I only use carpet and plastic on my permanent paths.

Ian

[Peter]

Nothing wrong with carpet, provided it gets moved every year and the ground dug and manured. The basis of most carpets is a nylon weave, guess what the basis of the woven black membrane is? Both let rain through and smother pernicious weeds, carpet is self weighting once damp and does not require pallets etc.

I use it to cover my squash bed, planting through gaps or holes, then lift it after harvest.

Any persistent membrane laid down and then covered with any other organic mulching material is an absolute nightmare to the gardener who follows the membranist.

I've had to excavate woven weed membrane, carpet and black plastic sheet from depths of up to a foot, and that is ascending order how bad they were to get up. All required the overfill to be removed, but the sheet ripped when pulled and caught on the shovel used to strip back, so took forever. Carpet and membrane were as bad as each other, but the carpet was heavier and more awkward to handle, while the membrane threatened to rip hands unless leather gloves were used, but could be pulled up with "crumbs" on where the sheet ripped into shreds stuck under the soil.

Carpet does decay, but provided you steer clear of foam-backed, it is not this hotbed of toxicity many people assume.
Foam-backed are a problem because the foam breaks down and gets incorporated into the soil as ever smaller bits with time, do not use these.
Aside from that, if you actually research it, as I have, the only information claiming general carpet toxicity is american carpet steam cleaning websites, which go as far as to allege that your carpets are full of toxins from the outside air and tar from the pavement, all in the name of chemical-free cleaning . A Greenpeace research paper pointed out that new carpet in houses is more harmful to our health because of the evaporating chemicals used in manufacture, fire-proofing and stain-resistance treatments, which build up in a closed room and we inhale them, these chemicals decrease with time as they are lost to the air.

Oh and if you use carpet, steer clear of the best quality all-wool carpets, I tried one once and it rotted away in under a year, couldn't even pick up a thread longer then my hands grip.

[Paulottie]

Ah the axminster weed membrane...I had to remove one of those that had grown into a plot last winter. disposing of the smelly heavy remnants(without having to make 3 trips in a car required a favour and a box of veg of someone with a skip ...all just so I could rent it to someone else They came twice...Grrrr....the couch grows through it and the buttercup on it. nightmare....which is why I banned it.

dpm just disintegrates...put some under a muck heap and regretted it.

However it also costs a load of time and effort if you get tennants who give up...so I still maintain I'd rather lend them some membrane for a year or two to get them started.

We move the mypex around and its never there long enough to be a problem. The one real irritating draw back is the shredding...unless you sew ,glue ,melt the cut ends it can fray everywhere.