F1 Hybrids

[JazzDuke]

The courgette and patty pan squash I grew this year were both F1 hybrids and, as I've read also, they cropped all at the same time. It was great for a while because they were also early and I had courgettes before most other people and I can see the attraction to commercial growers. Also later flowers and fruit did not mature on to edible fruit.

I will not be growing F1 hybrids again. I would much prefer a more irregular crop throughout a season rather than the 'feast or famine' which is what F1 hybrids seem to represent. I'm also prepared to suffer rather more erratic germination and pollination as a result. However another plus side is that F1 seed is often more expensive so I should save money.

What does everyone else think of F1? (No smart motorsport puns please, I went through them all in my head first!)

[Snadger]

I personally try to stay clear of F1's in most instances for the reasons you mention. I would rather try and rely on old varieties!!

Problem with this logic, I suppose, is burying your head in the sand while technology moves on means we would still be living in caves!

Maybe utilising some F1's that are bread for a specific purpose relevant to our requirements is the way to go?

[multiveg]

Sometimes, F1 would be favoured - how about a nice stick of sprouts for Christmas? But on the whole, I prefer non-F1 things though I suppose if you attempt to grow squash things from saved seed - who knows what you'd get!
F1 varieties you have to buy from seed companies. I read something disturbing in Organic Way - Terminator Hybrids - the seeds would be sterile. With saving F1 seed you'd get pot luck, but there's no hope for seed saving with Terminator hybrids.

[Snadger]

From what I can gather gardeners would be up the creek without a paddle if they didn't have bocking 14 Comfey terminator!

[multiveg]

From what I can gather gardeners would be up the creek without a paddle if they didn't have bocking 14 Comfey terminator!

No, there'd just be lots of foul smelling but good liquid fertiliser!

[Snadger]

No, there'd just be lots of foul smelling but good liquid fertiliser!

And nowhere to put it because it had taken over the veg plot!!Lol

[JazzDuke]

There'll always be two courses, one that is attractive to commercial big boys and one that is attractive to small commercial, specialists and hobbyists, I've no problem with that. F1's are not for me though.

[Earthbabe]

Personally prefer to avoid F1 to stagger crop and save seed to keep future costs down.

Only resort to F1 for very specific things e.g. blight avoidance, although that isn't always necessary.

[Protea]

I've used a mixture of F1 varieties and non F1's, some a re great, others annoying becasue of the 'glut' problem - i will be trying to avoid F1's for my brassica's next year for example - there's only so much cauliflower 2 people can eat in a week !!

However, some of my chillies were F1's and were fantastic, really good fruit, bred for earlieness and perform better in traditional cooler UK summers (not a problem this year though!) ditto with my tomatoes.

There are pro's and cons, but without all the investment that goes into breeding F1's we wouldn't be getting such a diversity and variety of veg available at the supermarket - F1's suit the commercial growers as they can plan the crops maturity and hence keep their supermarket customers happy. It also serves to introduce resistance to certain diseases etc which means less pesticides required to produce healthy crops - all good in my book!

[JazzDuke]

Protea, you sound like the spokesperson for Tesco's! I do agree with some of what you say but you name the pro's - there are quite a few cons to consider also, e.g. poor farmers can't save seed, they will still use more pesticides than home grown, there was amazing diversity already bred by the Victorians, etc.

For me one of the joys of market shopping is not knowing what will be there, what's in season, etc

[Earthbabe]

I agree JD and with that one of the bonuses of GYO is picking and choosing varieties to suit your tastes, soil, known problems, predilections (for me it's purple veg - or in fact any colour but green!). You can also choose to grow staples or luxuries/exotics or both. And you can pick when you want, you don't have to have monster runners or broad beans which still cost a fortune in the shops even when in season!!

As for potatoes I have yet to find Arran Victory in the shops or at a farmers' market and they were last year's raging success for us.

[Protea]

Protea, you sound like the spokesperson for Tesco's! I do agree with some of what you say but you name the pro's - there are quite a few cons to consider also, e.g. poor farmers can't save seed, they will still use more pesticides than home grown, there was amazing diversity already bred by the Victorians, etc.

For me one of the joys of market shopping is not knowing what will be there, what's in season, etc

Apologies - my family runs a veg seed business so i am perhaps a bit biased! I for one can't grow all i need for myself and husband all year round, so we do have to shop in the supermarket as well....not ideal but what can you do?

I was mainly referring to UK growers with respect the reduction in pesticides although this should happen worldwide. Even if a variety isn't F1, if its been recently bred then it will more than likely have breeders protection rights - so its actually illegal to save seed so your comment about poor farmers doesn't really stand up i'm afraid. I agree we should have more diversity (and we have lost a lot of it because of the supermarkets) and by growing our own we can do that, my point was that F1's are good for the nation as a whole, not everyone wants to GYO sadly.

[nick the grief]

............Even if a variety isn't F1, if its been recently bred then it will more than likely have breeders protection rights - ...........

I though that breeders right only meant that you had to pay royalties if you sold them. If you are propagating for yourself there isn't an issue - I may be wrong there.

[JazzDuke]

Protea, thanks for your honest reply in 'declaring an interest'. As I said at the very start of the thread there are some advantages for commercial growers.

I can't really see the attraction for gyo'ers, most that I have spoken to are not in it for boring predictability - even if it does mean better yields and looks.

[nick the grief]

Hi JD,

F1 Hybrids are also of interest to a ot of people who show Veg as what they need is consistant uniformity& the crop to mature together. No pint ingrowing something if you have to grow 200 of something to get 3 that match the "non" hybrid strains they use have been refined over many years to give this consistancy of course. But I agree that the average bod on the lottie isn't really into this still it can be useful if you want to freeze produce for later use.