Crop Rotation - Now completely confused

[BilboWaggins]

Afte reading the suggestions in the recent "Which Book" thread, I bought a copy of Andi Clevely's Allotment Book.

The main thing I need to learn about is crop rotation, so off to page 35 where I am told Bed A, Year 1, Podded vegetables and the onion family - which is explained as legumes (peas & beans) and onions. Sounds simple enough . . .

Trouble is, on the facing page in the Companion Planting box, Mr Clevely tells us that "beans do not grow well next to onions"

Although I've never grown veggies before (apart from obvious greenhouse stuff) I'm not a novice gardener but this leaves me completely confused and more than a tad irritated. Thankfully the book came from Amazon and they'll be getting it back, but in the meantime, PLEASE could someone tell me what the right answer is?

[zazen999]

Well, I've heard both. This year, I have a bean trench in the bed that my overwintering onions have been in. They will be coming out july-ish time.

So, I'll report back if I get no beans. The broadies are growing well at the moment though.

[Two_Sheds]

Bob Flowerdew says that legumes and alliums don't go well together (although one can follow the other).

I like Andi Clevely's books, myself. I wouldn't scrap it, just write to the publisher asking if it's a typo ?

[Snadger]

I don't tend to get 'hung up' on crop rotation anymore and this year I am mixing everything up and just following individual crops with dissimilar crops!

Dissimilar is my word for 2009!

[womble]

I have my onions and beans in separate rotations, as I like to give my alliums a maximum break due to problems I have with white rot.

But I can't see a problem here, I suggest you go for a 4 way rotation, with roots, alliums, brassicas and legumes. It's much better anyway.

If you don't want to, just grow the alliums and legumes in the same bed, just give them a small gap between the two types.

[Sweepster]

Is it definitely suggesting (in the crop rotation bit) that you plant legumes and onions at the same time? Just wondering if it means follow legumes with overwintering onions? If not, then

Have got piles of scrunched up paper next to my bed from my efforts to plan my crop rotation (I always try and do this at 3.30am for some reason)... doesn't help that I can't remember if I bought enough wood for three raised beds or four...

I'd suggest forgetting about companion planting for this year, sort out a rotation system that makes sense to you (based on what you're actually growing), and build from there - some things make more sense when you're actually doing them, and you need the freedom to be able to adapt things as you go along. Having said that, Snadger's Dissimilar Club may be getting a new member from here very soon

[Eyren]

It's very annoying when books do that, isn't it? It's probably a mess-up at the publisher's end - the people who do the nitty-gritty of editing and proofreading the manuscript aren't necessarily experts and may not pick up on errors that have crept in.

Certainly everything I've read suggests that beans and onions don't do well together, whereas a lot of folks (including me) grow carrots and onions together because the onions help to mask the carrot scent from the carrot root fly.

The important thing is to rotate everything over a period of several years - beyond that, you may need to make your own groupings because

a) different crops take up different amounts of space (carrots vs cabbage, for example), and
b) people's tastes differ - you may want loads of carrots but only a few cabbages, or vice versa

I find the best way is to work out how much of each veg family you want to grow, area-wise, then divide the families into three or four groups that will occupy roughly equal areas. Then you just rotate your groups around equal-sized beds.

[BilboWaggins]

Well, I've heard both. This year, I have a bean trench in the bed that my overwintering onions have been in. So, I'll report back if I get no beans. The broadies are growing well at the moment though.

Hope it works out, would be such a shame if the broadies failed, they're definitely on my "must grow" list.

Bob Flowerdew says that legumes and alliums don't go well together (although one can follow the other).

I like Andi Clevely's books, myself. I wouldn't scrap it, just write to the publisher asking if it's a typo ?

First thing I did was go to the publishers website and also Googled for Andi Clevely. Publisher's site doesn't make it easy to write to them (unless it's a sales enquiry) and got no joy looking for AC directly. Hey ho, these things happen.

I don't tend to get 'hung up' on crop rotation anymore and this year I am mixing everything up and just following individual crops with dissimilar crops!

Dissimilar is my word for 2009!

Thanks Snadger, suspect that mixing it up is just as valid! Years ago we were told to dig soil deeply every winter - now more is known about soil bacteria and microbes and there's a school of thought that says 'don't mess it up and expose anaerobic bacteria to the air'. Perhaps dissimilar is the crop rotation of the future!

I have my onions and beans in separate rotations, as I like to give my alliums a maximum break due to problems I have with white rot.

But I can't see a problem here, I suggest you go for a 4 way rotation, with roots, alliums, brassicas and legumes. It's much better anyway.

thanks Womble, 4 beds suits me better, your suggestion works for me.

[BilboWaggins]

Have got piles of scrunched up paper next to my bed from my efforts to plan my crop rotation (I always try and do this at 3.30am for some reason)... doesn't help that I can't remember if I bought enough wood for three raised beds or four...

Thanks Sweepster, glad it's not just me with piles of paper next to the bed!

The important thing is to rotate everything over a period of several years - beyond that, you may need to make your own groupings because

a) different crops take up different amounts of space (carrots vs cabbage, for example), and
b) people's tastes differ - you may want loads of carrots but only a few cabbages, or vice versa

I find the best way is to work out how much of each veg family you want to grow, area-wise, then divide the families into three or four groups that will occupy roughly equal areas. Then you just rotate your groups around equal-sized beds.

Great advice Eyren, much appreciated. In truth, half of this is academic for me this year because I don't expect most of the beds to be ready to use until it is time to plant over-wintering things.

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice. I've also done a search on here for Crop Rotation and found some brilliant advice, perhaps I should have done that first . . .

[Alison]

The other thing you can do if you want to have your onions in the same rotation as your legumes is put them in a differnt bed but keep them part of the same rotation - not sure this makes sense but I have a four year rotation with 3 beds in each year ie 12 beds in total. As it happens my onions are in with the carrots etc but have their own bed. If I was growing less peas and beans then they could just as easily been with them instead without any worries about them being grown side by side.

[chell25]

Hi Bilbo,

I am new to growing as well and got really confused so i have decided to try and keep them together in the best way i though.

Bed 1 - Pots and carrots
Bed 2 - Radish, Onions, Leeks, Spring onions
Bed 3 - Coliflowers, broccoli, Red cabbage

Chell

[BilboWaggins]

I have a four year rotation with 3 beds in each year ie 12 beds in total.

Thanks Alison, it does make sense, especially as I'm planning 8 beds to give two 4-year rotations.

[BilboWaggins]

Hi Bilbo,
Bed 3 - Coliflowers, broccoli, Red cabbage

Oh, Red Cabbage, drat, had forgotten that - rushes off to add to The List

[Eyren]

I am new to growing as well and got really confused so i have decided to try and keep them together in the best way i though.

Bed 1 - Pots and carrots
Bed 2 - Radish, Onions, Leeks, Spring onions
Bed 3 - Coliflowers, broccoli, Red cabbage

Radishes are the same family as caulis and cabbage, but I don't think they are so vulnerable to clubroot. Still, might be advisable to put them in Group 3 in future - they'll have plenty of time to crop before their bigger cousins are ready!

[BilboWaggins]

Radishes are the same family as caulis and cabbage, but I don't think they are so vulnerable to clubroot. Still, might be advisable to put them in Group 3 in future - they'll have plenty of time to crop before their bigger cousins are ready!

And then my brain hurts even more - not only do I need to work out what goes with what (actually that's not too difficult) but now I'm learning that to make the best use of the space I can plant two differently timed crops in the same space . . .