Organic myth 2!!!!!

[Snadger]

In the end, the plant takes in food at the molecular level. It doesn't care whether it gets its required molecules from an organic or inorganic source. People care about growing organically.......not plants!
There WILL be guidelines for organic farmers which are probably as thick as a telephone directory, but we, as gardeners have to balance organic-ness with airmiles and in some cases cost.
If we are informed and happy with what we are doing....we ARE doing the right thing for us!

[Iamhanuman]

is plotman really 'banned'?
it says so under his name?

[bluemoon]

In the end, the plant takes in food at the molecular level. It doesn't care whether it gets its required molecules from an organic or inorganic source. People care about growing organically.......not plants!
There WILL be guidelines for organic farmers which are probably as thick as a telephone directory, but we, as gardeners have to balance organic-ness with airmiles and in some cases cost.
If we are informed and happy with what we are doing....we ARE doing the right thing for us!

Absolutely right Snadger, a nitrogen molecule is a nitrogen molecule whether it originates from home made compost or a box of Miracle Grow. I think the idea is that the one from homemade compost will have had a less detrimental effect on the environment prior to being taken up by a plant. Where organic growing really influences me though is that I really don't want to eat veg laced with pesticides - they kill all insects, not just greenfly - and I worry about the 'food miles' too.
But, I also feel that there's a lot of rubbish going on in the marketing of organic and sustainable living products that make some things quite dubious, to say the least. Shop bought organic veg still comes prepackaged in plastic and has travelled a fair distance, and I saw one 'ethical' company selling wooden boxes for collecting/storing veg. No mention that you could recycle a tomato crate from the greengrocer or that a plastic box you happened to have lying around at home was better pressed into service for the job, rather than chucked into landfill whilst you had one of their ludicrously priced wooden things shipped to you from half way across the country.
All in all, we've got to be sensible and do what we can or feel we want to. We've never used a herbicide or a chemical fertilizer and I used a pesticide once, three years ago, to save a plum tree, but I know that there are people on other allotments near to my own who are largely inorganic and frankly I'd rather they were there on their plots enjoying their hobby than get dogmatic with them. It's probably how they've always done it, and who am I to argue, when it comes to taking a photo I still use film and wouldn't have a digicam if Nikon offered me a top-of-the-range free one, same thing really.

[womble]

I hoped someone would bring this up in a new thread, one of my posts got removed from the other thread as well.

Plotman had me fooled, I thought he was asking a genuine question, not trying to force an argument about organic growing. Either way, it was an interesting conversation.

As Snadger says "Sometimes I like to play devils advocate myself" as do I, if we all agree with each other, then it all gets a bit boring and we never really push the limits.

I missed all the excitement on this thread and now plotmans post/s have gone and I don't know what he wrote!

Are we all back to agreeing with each other now?

Maybe I should start a thread on the fact that I believe everyone that eats meat should kill their own animal.... that always seems to start a good conversation

[selfraising]

I agree with all these comments. Like FionaH, when I started out, I wasn't particularly aware but have become more so as time has gone on. I don't profess to be totally green, just try my best to do what I can. I figure a little bit of 'greenness' is better than none at all. I try and recycle what I can, encourage wild life into the garden, do not use peat free but may have a go next year and try, when I can, not to use chemicals.

[FionaH]

Are we all back to agreeing with each other now?

Maybe I should start a thread on the fact that I believe everyone that eats meat should kill their own animal.... that always seems to start a good conversation

Oh Im right with you! If that bl@@dy cat doesnt get out of my raised beds and planters its the first for the pot I can tell you!

I agree with all these comments. Like FionaH, when I started out, I wasn't particularly aware but have become more so as time has gone on. I don't profess to be totally green, just try my best to do what I can. I figure a little bit of 'greenness' is better than none at all. I try and recycle what I can, encourage wild life into the garden, do not use peat free but may have a go next year and try, when I can, not to use chemicals.

Peat free may be good for the peat bogs but I will only buy it when the price comes down!

[Fluorescent green]

Peat free may be good for the peat bogs but I will only buy it when the price comes down!

The price difference is not that much. It depends what you put first, do you want to live in a polluted, wildlife free environment or do you put money first.

FG

[lynda66]

i love the organic arguments i use stuff that's vaguely organic like bfb but as we have no idea if the bfb animals were organic, then i presume they probably werent, also use homemade compost, but theres never enough, so i get bags that are the cheapest, i also use non organic slug pellets when necessary, cos they work, in between laying cardboard down and stones and collecting them ..... and chicken poo pellets, that probably arent organic either, cos the chances are they come from battery hens

if it's a choice between having edible veg and not .... i will use chemicals but i try not to unless its essential. ........ we are surrounded by chemicals and in reality i try to use stuff from organic ish sources ... doesn't necessarily make them organic as far as chemical free goes ..... i grow veg to save money not to jump on the organic bandwagon ....

[Eyren]

I was in the middle of replying to the previous thread when the moderators closed it...

I think "organic gardening" (or whatever you want to call it) is like any other change of lifestyle - you can't do it all at once, because we're creatures of habit. Changing your behaviour one small step at a time is far more likely to produce long-term change than trying to go 100% organic (however you define that) in one fell swoop. What your first steps are - eliminating pesticides and artificial fertilizers, making your own compost, buying seasonal local veg instead of stuff flown halfway around the world - doesn't matter, the important thing is that you've taken the first step on a journey of (self)discovery, and before you know it you'll want to do more.

Games of "greener than thou" are a waste of energy that could be better spent on your allotment

[Snadger]

The price difference is not that much. It depends what you put first, do you want to live in a polluted, wildlife free environment or do you put money first.

FG

How many air miles does coir take up though? Where does the plastic packaging come from? What about the 'Local' aspect as well?

No answers here I'm afraid, cost is just one of many issues to take into consideration!

[FionaH]

I was in the middle of replying to the previous thread when the moderators closed it...

I think "organic gardening" (or whatever you want to call it) is like any other change of lifestyle - you can't do it all at once, because we're creatures of habit. Changing your behaviour one small step at a time is far more likely to produce long-term change than trying to go 100% organic (however you define that) in one fell swoop. What your first steps are - eliminating pesticides and artificial fertilizers, making your own compost, buying seasonal local veg instead of stuff flown halfway around the world - doesn't matter, the important thing is that you've taken the first step on a journey of (self)discovery, and before you know it you'll want to do more.

Games of "greener than thou" are a waste of energy that could be better spent on your allotment

This is what I call a thought out and balanced response to a tricky situation..........

The price difference is not that much. It depends what you put first, do you want to live in a polluted, wildlife free environment or do you put money first.

FG

This Isn't

Off to play in the garden as Eyren suggests

[zazen999]

The price difference is not that much. It depends what you put first, do you want to live in a polluted, wildlife free environment or do you put money first.

FG

What makes you think that purchasing ANY compost will give us a better environment?

Best make your own and use that, if you really want to be sustainable.

Perhaps instead of flaming all the time, you could lead by example and show other grapes just how they can live a more sustainable gardening lifestyle....should they wish to.

[womble]

Really, worrying about the peat bogs, seems like sticking a plaster over a knee blown off by a landmine and carrying on walking......

Of course it would help, tbh I don't know why they just don't ban the use of it and be done with it. Plants would carry on growing.

[smallblueplanet]

What makes you think that purchasing ANY compost will give us a better environment?

Best make your own and use that, if you really want to be sustainable...

Perhaps the question shouldn't be 'organic or not'? It should be how sustainable is the way I garden?

Or live my life! I'm trying to grow without using pesticides/herbicides but I'm using tap water and plastic environmesh - what I want to know is, is it sustainable? I don't use peat from peat bogs because I don't believe that is sustainable. As for the rest of my modern life well I do the best I can to be 'sustainable' without reverting to living in a round-house with no modern conveniences...my conscience, my choices.

[zazen999]

Perhaps the question shouldn't be 'organic or not'? It should be how sustainable is the way I garden?

Or live my life! I'm trying to grow without using pesticides/herbicides but I'm using tap water and plastic environmesh - what I want to know is, is it sustainable? I don't use peat from peat bogs because I don't believe that is sustainable. As for the rest of my modern life well I do the best I can to be 'sustainable' without reverting to living in a round-house with no modern conveniences...my conscience, my choices.

Exactly.....!!!!