Mycorrhizal fungi

[Matt.]

Has anybody ever used this on their veg and if so have you noticed significant benefit? I found a cheap source so I've just bought some of the Rootgrow product as I'm hoping it will help my giant pumpkins. Its not something I'd heard of until I found it from the pumpkin growing community. I've noticed they claim it will help other veg with examples of leeks provided on the net as well as fruit trees and other long term plants.

The idea is that the fungus attaches itself to the regular roots of your plant. The fungus then builds a very fine secondary root system that will feed the roots of the main plant.

Just wondered if others use this, swear by it or just think its a bit of a con?!

[taff]

I thought this was present in the soil anyway if you've got a good mix in it?

[bluemoon]

I know they introduce it to newly planted spruce plantations, but I've never heard of it being used for something as short term as pumpkins. The idea is that the fungus grows and eventually 'links' each tree to each other tree and the nutrients are passed around. As far as I'm aware evergreens can't grow properly without it.

[Matt.]

Yes it is in the soil naturally but what this is doing is artificially increasing the volume in a targetted spot. Also you direct target the roots of your new plant by adding the fungi granules directly to the roots of a new plant as you transplant it between pots or into the ground. You certainly don't go broadcasting the stuff aiming to increase overall volumes of fungus.

I guess for short term planting it comes down to cost effectivness. Fortunatley I found a cheap source so I thought I'd give it a try.

[snohare]

I am fortunate enough to have MLURI locally, which is an internationally famous soil research institute, and to keep bumping into the many employees there. Talk to soil scientists, they will tell you that it is all about these funghi, many plants that just fail to thrive do so because of lack of the necessary mycorrhizae. Any soil that doesn't have them in one sort or another is doomed, that is pretty much what desertification is about - the conditions being wrong for them. New soil often lacks them, so too do very old soils; why, when and which is the big question, it is a preciously unknown ecosystem we are just beginning to learn about. So the idea is certainly not a con. What genomics is to medicine, mycorrhizae is to soil science.
You do need specific varieties for different plants, I'd be interested to know what variety they use for pumpkins Matt, and if it is commercially available.
Like Nemaslug and other biological controls, this technology is another example of the right knowhow helping the march of progress in a good direction. I reckon as climate changes we are going to be using this stuff a lot to help fortify our soils; it seems that they can actively protect against adverse weather effects, up to a point.

[taff]

Be good to see what your yields are, and if they increase

[bluemoon]

I am fortunate enough to have MLURI locally, which is an internationally famous soil research institute, and to keep bumping into the many employees there. Talk to soil scientists, they will tell you that it is all about these funghi, many plants that just fail to thrive do so because of lack of the necessary mycorrhizae. Any soil that doesn't have them in one sort or another is doomed, that is pretty much what desertification is about - the conditions being wrong for them. New soil often lacks them, so too do very old soils; why, when and which is the big question, it is a preciously unknown ecosystem we are just beginning to learn about. So the idea is certainly not a con. What genomics is to medicine, mycorrhizae is to soil science.
You do need specific varieties for different plants, I'd be interested to know what variety they use for pumpkins Matt, and if it is commercially available.
Like Nemaslug and other biological controls, this technology is another example of the right knowhow helping the march of progress in a good direction. I reckon as climate changes we are going to be using this stuff a lot to help fortify our soils; it seems that they can actively protect against adverse weather effects, up to a point.

Sounds interesting. Why can't I keep bumping into people who know stuff like this? Sounds like it could be the next big thing for us organic obsessives, though I would imagine the thing would be to garden in a way that ensures you have a naturally healthy population rather than adding it artificially. Can't hurt to kick start things though, I wouldn't have thought. And it's not going to harm your plants so I'd certainly try it.

[Demeter]

Sounds interesting. Why can't I keep bumping into people who know stuff like this? .

Isn't that what the vine is for??!!

[Snadger]

Just guessing, but would suspect the addition of organic matter as practiced for thousands of years to good effect, would have have these soil fungi in abundance?

[snohare]

Yes, absolutely right Snadger. The point about soil bacteria and fungi is that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions upon millions of species of them, depending on how you measure species - bacteria in particular have little loops of free range DNA called plasmids that they swap promiscuously whenever they bump into each other, rather like dodgem cars that transfer parts whenever they collide; so getting exactly the right one with the components you need in the amount you need for a specific plant is pot luck. As mycorrhizae make dissolved nutrients available to plant roots in exchange for a tiny amount of carbohydrates, they are in effect add-on root systems that vastly improve the odds for any plant seedling that needs them. Adding large amounts of a known, genetically sequenced variety that is known to have the appropriate genes to help a pumpkin is little different to a company coppicing ash in order to make tool handles rather than wandering around a forest looking for ash trees with the right sort of branches. Or a seedsman growing cabbages inside a polytunnel to ensure self pollination and large scale seed production, I suppose.
But eventually, as with some soils in China and other long-farmed areas, it may be that after thousands of years the fungal ecosystems burn out or change in such a way that causes some nutrients to be entirely used up or locked away, thus ruining the ecosystem from top to bottom. Like with hundred foot up lichens on old-growth forest trees, there are vast, long term changes going on that we are only just beginning to even see, even as we destroy them.

Why can't I keep bumping into people who know stuff like this?

Bluemoon, it is pure luck I met these people. I suppose folk who study ecosystems and the environment are more likely to meet people who do voluntary work on the said ecosystems and environments, so I knew of many people but never spoke to them; it wasn't until my next-door neighbours turned out to include a sociable Hungarian beetle expert who works there that I got to be the guy at the party that has long earnest drunken discussions with the nerd who spends his day cataloguing pollen fragments.
As you have no doubt noticed, my nerdiness quotient is quite high....do you really want as boring a life as I've had ? They even offered me some work peering down a microscope - and if I'd been able, I'd have done it.
(To instantly increase your nerdiness factor and know the headlines six months or years ahead, read New Scientist magazine. Warning: quantum physics articles may sprain your brain ! )

[Snadger]

................................Warning: quantum physics articles may sprain your brain ! )

Aaah! Now you're talking! btw I read somewhere that Stephen Hawkins is a bit poorly at the mo and is reluctantly giving up his Cambridge work.

[BilboWaggins]

Has anybody ever used this on their veg and if so have you noticed significant benefit? I found a cheap source so I've just bought some of the Rootgrow product as I'm hoping it will help my giant pumpkins.

Hi Matt,
I used it extensively in our last garden and now would NEVER plant without it. Although I wasn't growing much in the way of veg at the time, I used it for planting shrubs and a lot of seed raised annuals and perennials. Shrubs settled into their new locations must faster and put good new growth on very quickly.

I ran a small test where I potted on seedlilngs, some with MF and some without, mostly perennials but also tomato and chilli. Without exception the MF-added plants were much larger, healthier and yields were better than the control group.

If I could find the photos I took of each stage of the experiement I could show you but that is unlikely 'cos they are burried on an old hard drive.

I was buying Rootgrow from Buckingham Nurseries but it's not cheap - can you share your source?

Thanks

[Matt.]

First of all I'd like to say thanks to the fantastic contribuitions made so far to this thread. Its been a great read and I'm convinced its worth more research and further understanding. I won't necessarily do any trials with what I have because I operate in an all or nothing manner but we'll see how the season goes.

You do need specific varieties for different plants, I'd be interested to know what variety they use for pumpkins Matt, and if it is commercially available.

Most of the pumpkin resources refer to American products and American retailers. I'm aware that you need endo-mychorrizae for pumpinks and veg rather than ecto-mychorrizae which is more for trees and evergreens. Other than that I don't know. As for the stuff I've bought its not specific in the type of fungus but it is suitable for veg.

I was buying Rootgrow from Buckingham Nurseries but it's not cheap - can you share your source?

The product I've got is called rootgrow. As this is a sponsored site I'm not going to post any links but if you search in google under the shopping option you'll easily find a cheap source of the 75g size package