Do you garden organically?

[weekendwellies]

Having look at the poll result so far, Number 1 is in the lead at 61%,
This is the one I picked; I don't think organic tastes any better or is any better nutritionally, I just don't want to be eating food that has chemicals in/on it and I would prefer to let the balance of nature control pests and diseases which on my little plot and in my garden is do-able. If I lose some of my crop to slugs, insects, etc I am not too bothered so long as they leave the majority for me.

[Incy]

Slug pellets and Bordeaux Mixture are the only two things that disqualify me from being "organic". I'm certainly not giving them up.

I use organic slug pellets as they have massively improved now, but did use the evil sort before. Is bordeaux mixture not organic? I've never used it but thought that it was.

[LostGoddess]

From what I have read, I think the FSA study was incomplete and the presentation of their results misleading.

Taken from the Soil Association response to the FSA report...

"Although the researchers say that the differences between organic and non-organic food are not 'important', due to the relatively few studies, they report in their analysis that there are higher levels of beneficial nutrients in organic compared to non-organic foods. For example, the mean positive difference between the following nutrients, when comparing organic to non-organic food, was found in the FSA study to be:

- Protein 12.7%
- Beta-carotene 53.6%
- Flavonoids 38.4%
- Copper 8.3%
- Magnesium 7.1%
- Phosphorous 6%
- Potassium 2.5%
- Sodium 8.7%
- Sulphur 10.5%
- Zinc 11.3%
- Phenolic compounds 13.2%

The researchers also found higher levels of beneficial polyunsaturated fatty acids in organic meat and dairy products (between 2.1% - 27.8% higher) compared to non-organic meat and dairy.
The Soil Association is also disappointed that the FSA failed to include the results of a major European Union-funded study involving 31 research and university institutes and the publication, so far, of more than 100 scientific papers, at a cost of 18million Euros, which ended in April this year

I don't know about anyone else, but an organic carrot that has potentially 53.6% more beta-carotene than a non-organic carrot sounds to me like a significant nutritional difference.
If the FSA wanted to produce the most informed report possible, why didn't they wait for the European Union study results so they could be incorporated into their results?
I would also be interested to know what criteria the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine used in order to reject half the existing studies comparing the nutritional value of organic and non-organic.

[teakdesk]

I cannot vote as I....

1/ have used growmore this year

2/ have used Epsom Salts this year

3/ have used Slug Pellets this year

4/ have used Ant Powder this year

5/ used liquid supermarket version of Tomorite

... so I cannot claim to be organic.



However, I haven't sprayed with anything other than milk, my compost heaps have been in full use for many years, I won't use Chicken Manure Pellets because they come from battery hens, I use blood, fish and bone....

[jonohanson]

I have been organic at home, but not at the allotment and this is mainley with it being our first year, we weed keilled most beds jus to clear them.

[solway cropper]

I garden on the same principles as my grandad did. I don't call it organic because i'm never sure exactly what that's supposed to mean and I don't suppose most other people do either. From what i understand, the recent study looked only at the nutritional value of foods and I would have to agree that there probably isn't any difference. A non-organic carrot picked straight from the soil would have more goodness in it than an organic one that had been sitting in a supermarket for 2 days. The beta-carotene content is largely dependent on the variety.

[Bramble_killer]

From what I have read, I think the FSA study was incomplete and the presentation of their results misleading.

Taken from the Soil Association response to the FSA report...



I don't know about anyone else, but an organic carrot that has potentially 53.6% more beta-carotene than a non-organic carrot sounds to me like a significant nutritional difference.
If the FSA wanted to produce the most informed report possible, why didn't they wait for the European Union study results so they could be incorporated into their results?
I would also be interested to know what criteria the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine used in order to reject half the existing studies comparing the nutritional value of organic and non-organic.

The criteria are included in the studies. They have to exclude certain studies because they were not conducted rigourously enough. This happens alot when people talk about homeopathic medicines as well. They always complain their studies get excluded but they just were not conducted with good enough scientific practice.

The Soil Association is a lobby group, promoting organic markets and are biased.

FWIW, I try to be organic as possible but I also like to eat the produce that I spend a long time growing so I put slug pellets down (if I didn't, there would be nothing to eat, the slugs ate the stem of a chilli pepper I put outside to grow!). I use Bordeaux mixture because I don't want blight on the potatoes and tomatoes (and still losing that one ). I use shop bought chemicals for feeding tomatoes because GYO was giving out them free with a magazine

[Nicos]

I'd say all those reasons- and it's just the 'right' thing to do if you can as a smallholder.

[zazen999]

But I use canes from wilko and netting from ikea and wilko....and those aren't from 'organic and sustainable' sources.......it depends on how you define 'organic' - whether it is about keeping chemicals away or using organic sustainable principles from start to finish......I don't think it is an argument that is easily resolved.

[TEB]

The criteria are included in the studies. They have to exclude certain studies because they were not conducted rigourously enough. This happens alot when people talk about homeopathic medicines as well. They always complain their studies get excluded but they just were not conducted with good enough scientific practice.

The Soil Association is a lobby group, promoting organic markets and are biased.

FWIW, I try to be organic as possible but I also like to eat the produce that I spend a long time growing so I put slug pellets down (if I didn't, there would be nothing to eat, the slugs ate the stem of a chilli pepper I put outside to grow!). I use Bordeaux mixture because I don't want blight on the potatoes and tomatoes (and still losing that one ). I use shop bought chemicals for feeding tomatoes because GYO was giving out them free with a magazine

The FSA has been accused of bias especially in respect to GM foods, with the amount of sleaze you hear these days I doubt if you can react objectively to any report that is issued these days from whatever source.

[sarraceniac]

I use organic slug pellets as they have massively improved now, but did use the evil sort before. Is bordeaux mixture not organic? I've never used it but thought that it was.

No Incy. Bordeaux mixture is a mixture of Copper Sulphate and Calcium (Hydr)oxide. My fruit trees couldn't survive without it so I can't claim to be organic. I don't spray just for the sake of it though.

[annacruachan]

Slug pellets and Bordeaux Mixture are the only two things that disqualify me from being "organic". I'm certainly not giving them up.

I thought Bordeaux mixture was organic?

[teakdesk]

I thought Bordeaux mixture was organic?

No, definitely not!!!


Also a warning from Wikipedia....

Bordeaux mixture has been found to be harmful to fish, livestock and - due to potential build up of copper in the soil - earthworms.

So use with care if you have a fish pond etc...

[sewer rat]

I do not grow 100% organically - the Department of Agriculture won't let me as I have to spray my tatties for blight - I am surrounded by in excess of 1000 acres of certified seed potato growers, so if I got blight and passed it on, the fingers would point and I'd probably be taken to court !! Other than spraying for blight, I use nothing at all except FYM or pig slurry - both from non organic farms so again that's a black mark.
No herbicides are used - or pesticides - and my crops seem to do okay - or better than okay in most cases - once you can find them through the weeds. It may not look tidy, but I do not suffer the same pest damage as I would if I had nice neat rows with no weeds - if the flutterbys can't see my cabbages, they can't lay their eggs and the caterpillars can't munch. In contrast, the hotel garden insists of nooce straight rows with no weeds in site and the pest damage is horrendous - 90% of the summer brassicas will be written off this year - and some serious investment in fleece and netting will be required for next year - though this year has apparently been particularly bad for pest damage.
I'm by no means a tree hugger or anything of that ilk - I hunt and fish, but I do grow my veg as organically as I can because I do believe passionately in looking afer what's left of our environment - so when I see a hare, or a grey partridge before Charlie (the dog) does, he gets shut in the van til the respective creatures are out of sight.
The FSA report is misleading and also, like other reports before it, and no doubt other surveys yet to be commissioned, completely fails to recognise what organic is all about. It's not about taste - that can only come with fresh out the ground / off the plant, it's not even about increased nutritional benefits - and take everything said by the SA with a pinch of salt - remember they are supposed to be fighting the organic standpoint but not so long ago they were going to lobby for the removal of organic status from organic food that had been air-freighted into this country - organic is still organic regardless of whether it has travelled the world to get to our supermarkets or not.
Organic is about growing in tune with the environment, not continually pumping chemicals and artificial fertilisers into the ground to gain increased yields and control pests
Rant over

[Tam]

I am surprised by some of the contributors stating that they use slug pellets. These should certainly be banned as they have caused untold deaths of birds, frogs, toads, hedgehogs etc as well as domestic pets.