Help! Newbie looking for a litle advice please??

[sparkyaj]

I have decided to plant out our veg plot at our new house. I'd like to make the most of the space I have and hoped that some one could share some advice on how to split the growing areas up to maximise crop please/

The area is rectangluar and is 10Mtrs long by 2Mtrs wide.

I have runners, peas, cabage, cali, onions, calibr, rad. and a few others........

Any help would be greatfuly received. Thank you

[andrewo]

Keep your paths wide

What kind of soil is it? Are you on clay, sand or silt? All I can say is that you could have raised beds (use planks) in your case you could have five beds that are 1m wide and 2m long (you would never have to stand on them). You could use on for permanent fruit like raspberries, blackcurrants and rhubarb. Just keep your paths wide between for a wheelbarrow etc.

Are you having a greenhouse, what direction is the site? Are you having a compost bin (you must!).

Need more info, but we'll be glad to help.

Andrewo

[sparkyaj]

Thanks for that. I have scaned a plan of the garden out for you to look at. the soil is very nice dark moist. It was well turned over up until 3 years ago. But even now, after a few turns and the recent frosty nights it's fighting ready for some growing!!

Thanks again

[sparkyaj]

Does anyone have any ideas????? - please

[Nicos]

Yes...will think on it for you!
First of all you need to divide the plot into sections with paths left to right...about75cm wide. Then you need to decide which veg you fancy growing.

They will fall into one of 3 catagories- brassicas; roots and 'others'. If you treat yourself to a book called 'The vegetable & herb expert' by Dr D G Hessayon ISBN 0-903-50546-0 for £6.99 you will understand what I am trying to explain. It really is the easiest book to follow and well worth treating yourself to.
Some of us still work on feet and ins for some things and it is easier to explain that a 2ft path and a 4ft bed is the easiest to work with! what you need to be aware of is that next year you need to rotate the crop because if you plant the same crop in the same place each year it is mmore likely to pick up diseases from the soil. The book will explain this to you.
Once you know what you fancy growing, you will need to work out which group it fits in to , so each bed is a mass of one group. The following year you just do the same crops but on the next bed.
If my maths is better than it was the other day... I reckon you'll get 5 beds. You could choose to do 6 narrower ones to make things easy ,or have 2 permanent ones with asparagus/ strawberries/fruit bushes/ Herbs and rotate the others. Have a think about it. There are loads of people here to help you once you have a rough Idea of what you fancy growing! We alwys have far too many 'others' and not enough brassicas but thats what we prefer!
come back with your rough ideas and we can help you further.
Looks good already...the next step is really simple so don't be put off!

[sparkyaj]

YIKES!

OK

well, things such as cabage, cali, cailbr, and runner beans will be the main crop...(large amounts)

spuds this year I'm not too fussed about. Onions are a could be, but the above are my emergency must haves for as long as poss......cause they are my fav:-)

OK, I plan to put most, if not all of my herbs around the front in a separate boarder. Raspberries are planned to go on their tod the other side of the lawn as per the diagram..............strawberries are a must, but i'm thinking what to do with them.. I'd like to keep the veg plot as veg.......

I have just sown tomato, peppers, chili in the green house for later.... I have melon, cucumber and a few other smallbies to go in their later on....

So back to the veg plot.......I was assuming say:

cabage patch.........
runner beans..........maybe with sweat peas also on canes with beans if tis can be done?
maybe leeks either side of the runners......................
sprouts, cali and calibr............
then I need some things to break it down.....

I don't like lots of wasted space..... SO I was wondering if I could use smaller comfert plants to go along side where the paths would be....

Looking back on this it seems as clear as mud from what I have just said.
Thank you for your help........I'll look thebook up now.
Best wishes
sparky

[sparkyaj]

I nearly forgot!! my honny wants raddish's Must include these!!!
thanks

[Nicos]

Sounds good.
I can understand you not wanting to waste space on paths between areas but you will need to space the rows of veg a little further apart so you can go up and down weeding and not tread on the plants. Watching the older guys on our allotment who plant one big area with no paths makes me shudder with concern at the state of their backs as they lean over weeding for hours at a time. Much easier to kneel, but that takes up more space. Your choice really!
The other reason for grouping plants together into the 3 groups is that they need slightly different soil conditions and it is easier just to do prepare one area of each unless you fancy a challange.
Here is a rough guide for each group..

Roots - beetroot
carrot
chicory
jerusalem artichoke
parsnip
potato
salsify
scorzonera
Do not lime or add manure to this area and rake in general purpose fertilizer 2 weeks before sowing. (most people put manure in with their spuds when planting out though!)

Brassicas - Broccoli
brussels sprouts
cabbage
cauliflower
kale
kohl rabi
radish
swede
turnip
Add some well rotted manure or compost at digging time if soil is known to be short of humus.
Lime the soil unless you are sure it is already alkaline.
Rake in general purpose fertilizer about 2 weeks before before sowing or planting

Others - Aubergine
bean
capsicum
celeriac
celery
cucumber
endive
leaf beet
leek
lettuce
marrow
onion
pea
spinach
sweet corn
tomato
Add a liberal amount of well-rotted manure or compost at digging time
Lime only if the soil is known to be acid.
Rake in a general-purpose fertilizer about 2 weeks before sowing or planting.


Hope that gives you a rough idea to follow. Don't worry if it seems a bit complicated cos it's not! Have a look at wiZer's plan on one of the next threads as his plans look good.

[andrewo]

Don't panic

The books in the Dr D G Hessayon are excellent aids. You are looking for beds that are 4' wide, you can either have them raised (benefits of this is that you can go for no dig method and they warm up quickly in spring) or as normal beds - either way you have to dig in manure or plant a green manure at the end of each season (don't worry these are very cheap and easy and comprise of phacelia, rye and mustard - you leave them over winter and then chop them down and dig them in). Your beds could have the length of your plot and you could go for a four bed system with one static bed, this includes your fruit bushes, such as blackcurrant, raspeberry canes or rhubarb.

Keep your paths wide enough to get down a wheelbarrow. You can plant in lines or blocks (my preferred method) and you can certainly interplant with flowers as companion plants (which can be found on another thread or in a back issue of GYO). Don't forget to situate a couple of water butts on your site, either by the greenhouse, so you can run a drainpipe and gutter into them off the roof or near an existing down pipe that you can tap into.

If you go for normal beds, top tip for you, drive in wooden pegs at each corner, about a 1' high above the soil (it delineates the bed) this is for when you are using a hosepipe, the pipe will catch on the pegs and stop you from dragging it across your crops and damaging them.

Oh, last thing, if you're forgetful like me, keep a notebook to say what was in each bed that year, and if your beds are raised or not, mark them on the plot: A, B, C, D.

You'll get there.

Andrewo

[sparkyaj]

OK, that's a great help!

I have done a little planning and thought I'd let you see where I have got too.

I decided on 4 plots 8ft x 8ft. This gives me a good 20" between plots for small walkways.

I decided to put peas and runners side by side, though i'm not sure if I might just go with the beans.........

Please could you have a quick look and shed any suggestions please.>>>?

Plot 3 will be more rows..... I couldn't show row for row as it's to small to scan in, so just as a idea really.

[Lesley Jay]

You will need to change the sweetcorn as this must be planted in a block rather than in lines to aid pollination. Also the runner beans will grow much taller than the peas so if you have the runner beans on each side of the peas they will stop the sun getting to the peas. Having the brassicas altogether is good so that they are easier to net over if the birds are a problem. It looks like a good lay out.

[Nicos]

yes -it looks pretty good! I would suggest a couple of changes. Sweetcorn does need to be block planted in a minimum of 3 rows as they wind pollinate,and this would be easy to alter as Lesley Jay says.
Is the path on the top or below the beds on the plan? you have tall sweetcorn in plot 2 on the far side and tall artichokes on the nearside of plot 3.(unless they are chinese ones and that would be fine!) One of these crops will put the rest of their plot into shade,so it just needs moving over to the other side,staggering the heights.
I think also the radish would become swamped by the leaves of the plants on either side so it might be better on an end row - probably better not next to the savoys, although they will crop later.
Always bear in mind the final height and spread of the plants when planning so they don't hinder their neighbour.
I think you have done very well if this is your 1st plan!! well done!

[Geordie]

Sparkaj,

This is my tip for growing runner beans. Many people decide to grow runner beans up canes set out in a wigwam fashion. Traditionally this gives you a wide base and narrow top. As the bean pods grow they invariably hang inside the wigwam frame, making them harder to see.

My tip is to turn the wigwam frame upside down....you have a narrow base....tied together about 2' from the ground with the canes stretching out over. At the top simply loop string around opposite canes so they pull against each other and keep their shape. The bean pods will now hang outside the framework. You can also use the space underneath the frame as a catch crop for salads etc.....this was not possible on the previous method.

[sparkyaj]

OH WOW"! What could I plant in the catch crop. I've revised my plan as you can see. I lost the corn as I wanted to free up some space though doing it this way, I now have a gap between the cane row front and back............... I like the upside down idea! mmmmmmmmm....I'll have to have a re-think:-) THANKS TO YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP SO FAR.

[sparkyaj]

Here's the revision