Shallots from seed

[richkw]

I've just bought some Shallot 'Ambition' seeds to play with. They are an F1 Hybrid so they more than likely won't come true from next generation seed, but.........if I save the very best bulbs and store them for next season, will they then react like leek grass and effectively produce clones of the original bulbs.

Anybody got experience or thoughts on this?

[Snadger]

I think its only leeks that produce bulbils on the seedhead, but I may be wrong? Give it a try and let us know!

[richkw]

I think its only leeks that produce bulbils on the seedhead, but I may be wrong? Give it a try and let us know!

I didn't mean, will they produce grass, rather, will they come true to type if the bulbs grown the first year are re-planted the next year.

[COMPOST CORNER]

I wait to be corrected, but I thought if shallots were grown from seed, they only produced 1 shallot, not a bunch as from sets.

[Pies]

I've just bought some Shallot 'Ambition' seeds to play with. They are an F1 Hybrid so they more than likely won't come true from next generation seed, but.........if I save the very best bulbs and store them for next season, will they then react like leek grass and effectively produce clones of the original bulbs.

Anybody got experience or thoughts on this?

If i read you correctly

1.you plant seed this season
2 you lift them,one shallot per bulb
3 you replant the bulbs next year
4 you lift the shallots which have now split into bunches
5 you can now in year three replant the best bulbs, these should be clones

[zazen999]

If the next generation of shallots are propagated from seed, then yes, they might not come true. If they are propagated by division of the sets, then they should.

However, one of the characteristics of the F1ing could be that they have taken out the ability to bulb up set-wise.

Again, it seems like another 'there's only one way to find out' situation...

[richkw]

If i read you correctly

1.you plant seed this season
2 you lift them,one shallot per bulb
3 you replant the bulbs next year
4 you lift the shallots which have now split into bunches
5 you can now in year three replant the best bulbs, these should be clones

That's exactly what I mean.

[richkw]

If the next generation of shallots are propagated from seed, then yes, they might not come true. If they are propagated by division of the sets, then they should.

However, one of the characteristics of the F1ing could be that they have taken out the ability to bulb up set-wise.

Again, it seems like another 'there's only one way to find out' situation...

That's my thoughts exactly. I was hoping to find someone who's already tried it. Whatever, I'll start the experiment and sow the seeds today - I have about 50. I'll update their progress on my blog with photos.

[Snadger]

If the next generation of shallots are propagated from seed, then yes, they might not come true. If they are propagated by division of the sets, then they should.

However, one of the characteristics of the F1ing could be that they have taken out the ability to bulb up set-wise.

Again, it seems like another 'there's only one way to find out' situation...

This is my understanding also...............in other words, no matter how many times you plant the seed or set you will only get one bulb?.............I would love it if I was wrong though!

[richkw]

This is my understanding also...............in other words, no matter how many times you plant the seed or set you will only get one bulb?.............I would love it if I was wrong though!

Looks like I've set myself a project for 2010/2011, doesn't it!

[chriscross1966]

I think its only leeks that produce bulbils on the seedhead, but I may be wrong? Give it a try and let us know!

All alliums have the ability technically, but some of them need more encouragement than others.... tree onions need none, they do it anyway. Generally if you shave the flowerhead down an allium will topset, nearly all of them will divide at the bulb, nearly all of them flower from their second year and quite a few will provide basal offsets.... but (mis)treat them the right way and nearly all of them can do all four.....

Shallots classically focus on bulb division but also set a few flower, onions generally flower but do divide at the bulb, leeks generally flower and set a few basal offsets......etc

The topsetting in most alliums is a response to damage to the flower.....

chrisc

[Snadger]

All alliums have the ability technically, but some of them need more encouragement than others.... tree onions need none, they do it anyway. Generally if you shave the flowerhead down an allium will topset, nearly all of them will divide at the bulb, nearly all of them flower from their second year and quite a few will provide basal offsets.... but (mis)treat them the right way and nearly all of them can do all four.....

Shallots classically focus on bulb division but also set a few flower, onions generally flower but do divide at the bulb, leeks generally flower and set a few basal offsets......etc

The topsetting in most alliums is a response to damage to the flower.....

chrisc

Since posting, I did a bit of reading up and now realise that all alliums behave similarily to a certain degree.
I've only played about with leek King Pods,grass,pips and seed but can feel an experiment coming on next year with other alliums!

[Jeanied]

What kind of cut do you need to give the flowerhead - how short?

[chriscross1966]

Destroy the individual flowers and the head will respond with top sets. Generally the approved method is to get busy with nail scissors I believe. You want to leave the head but knock out the flowers.....

chrisc