Organic gardening.

[sarraceniac]

This one will cause arguments, insults and possibly even blood to run but I'm going to (deliberately) put the proverbial cat amongst the proverbial pigeons. If I should get expelled from GYO's site...well it should be fun.

Will some organic gardener please explain why chemicals delivered by a so called organic process should make vegetables taste better, or be better for you, than chemicals delivered by a manufacturing process? Loads of tests have shown that if you feed people a plate of organic potatoes and a plate of potatoes grown using commercial fertilisers, nobody can tell the difference. And analysis shows that there is no difference in nutritional value.

If I deliver a milligram of, say, potassium to a plant using, again say, comfrey, why should that milligram of potassium be any better than a milligram delivered by sulphate of potash? Chemically it is the same. The plant can't tell the difference between the two. But we are obliged to pay a lot more for supermarket 'organically grown' or work a lot harder for home 'organically grown' vegetables.

Now before you come round here and plant a bomb under our bed let me say that I can argue the organic case as well. But I think on a proper gardening forum that the members, both organic, and I hope that there are enough people who just think it is a load of twaddle, and inorganic can have a serious debate on this. (Preferably without killing anybody - like me).

By the way. I once got half the members on a forum to not talk to me for trying to get them to discuss who was the best TV gardener. Anybody got a LARGEwooden spoon?

P.S. Keep your attacks scientific, not emotional.

[Snadger]

I totally agree with you and if you would prefer to use straight chemicals GO AHEAD because as you say the plant won't notice any difference at molecular level!

There's more to being organic than not using chemical fertilisers though. None use of weedkillers springs to mind, using heavy mulches of organic materials to improve the soil structure, being at one with nature by providing plants for butterflies and bees. Having a pond and using frogs to kill your slugs............and it goes on and on and on!

The Victorians loved their chemicals and were wonderful gardeners but some of these chemicals, now banned, can cause untold damage.

I try to be as organic as I can because it feels right for me but inorganic gardening is fine for some, especially in the show world where size of veg or flower is everything and you get no extra points for growing show leeks organically.

There is room for all methods of gardening in this world and if it works for you and you are happy with it, thats all that matters.

[oldie]

I read a few years ago about an experiment giving rats or monkeys vitaman C from “natural” sources i.e fruit and others from man made ascorbic acid- the same chemical analysis. The result was that the animals fed the chemical one developed skin complaints but the others did not. Chemical analysis may not differ but maybe the human body(or the plant) uses it in a different (better?) way if it from a “natural” source.

[goddess]

I think it's a very valid question ,many including myself will be interested in reading the responses.putting my medical hat on ,a gram of potash should have the same chemical formula whether or not it was organic or not ,it's availability in the soil may be affected though. as far as i am concerned the organic approach means less or minimal exposure to material far from it's natural form

[BUFFS]

i think we believe it tastes better as we know no artificial additives have been used,no matter what the experts say,they are fallable,they said thalydamide was safe,that nuclear was the clean new energy, the experts are to be trusted as much as polititions,and how much would you trust them? the organic side is basically the same as years ago,try to use natural solutions to problems,the less we have contact with chemical residues,the better off we are.the veg out of your own garden is wholesome,in the proper sense of the word,if people want to use the chemicals and live off burgers,that is up to them,their choice,me,i love growing and eating my own stuff,i know whats in it..

[Jeanied]

I'm sticking with mother nature - because it is
a) cheaper to make my own remedies
b) less likely to have unforseen side effects.
And are you feeling OK Sarraceniac? Not like you to start a fight in the playground!

[crazywitch]

i dont garden organicaly at the moment because im battling with a lot of perenial weeds, but there is one side of the arguement you havent mentioned. that is the cost of producing these chemicals in terms of fuel, consuming resources and mileage costs etc.

[smallblueplanet]

Whatever.

If its a big con and you're not buying it, then you're ok aren't you?

I'll stick with organic.

[taff]

I feel better for eating my own veg that hasn't had anything I don't know about added to it.
I don't know what the cumulative effect of eating pesty veg is, and if I can avoid finding out by a few years worth of eating my own,I'd rather do that.
If there is no chemical difference between the two except manufacture,I'll take the organic option, because choosing to grow organically usually comes with some sense of resposibility about your whole way of life, the green aspects anyway, of making as little detrimental effect on the environment as possible.

[mogs]

I went to a talk on brassica growing last week and the commercial grower talked about the chemical fertilizer they used to use being one molecule removed from nerve gas, but that's all changed since it was banned a couple of years ago!! Now I'm not soft and I do believe kids are always ill these days because we're told to bleach everything to nuke 99% germs, but was slightly worried at the thought of nerve gas flavoured cabbages that may have passed through my system!

[SarzWix]

Although the plant might not notice whether it's nutrients are chemical or Organic (big O ), I do believe that the soil does. If the only thing going into it is artificial/soluble fertilizer, soil condition deteriorates. It does need organic matter adding, both for hummus, and for soil microbes etc. I can see that on my plot that I took over from an old gent who never did anything but add Growmore for years. The only part of the plot that has soil better than dust is the bed that gets leaf fall every autumn from an adjacent tree.
So comfrey might deliver the plant the nutrition it needs, it also adds to the soil. Pelleted potash of some form or another adds little to the soil even if it feeds the plant.

That said, I do use chemical fertilizers now and again. Notably Tomorite when the GC sells out of it's Organic equivelant.

[pigletwillie]

For years French vineyards just fed their soil with chemical fertilisers. Oh the vintages were good, the chemical sums all added up but after about 30 years it all started to go wrong.

Chemical analysis said everything was ok, the vines should thrive, lots of grapes. However when the soil was examined it was lifeless. It had virtually no micro-organisms in the soil. No earthworms, no life. It was the lack of life that was the problem, the plants need the Interaction between the nutrients and the micro-organisms for them to actually become available. This is why the big winter dig has been questioned and why I feel that the no dig raised bed does so well, you dont destroy the layers of fungal growth that liberates trace elements.

Now, chemicals are ok if you want to use them, but it should only be as part of a holistic system in your garden. Bugs like the real stuff not chemical ready meals and over time, killing them is the damage you do, even if the soil is perfectly proportioned with elements and nutrients.

[zazen999]

Because soil isn't made of plastic?

[pigletwillie]

I could have saved 10 mins typing with that reply, Quality.

[pipscariad]

Much good stuff said already, and as I'm no chemist or scientist, I'll keep it simple. I grow organically because I want to know what's in my veg, and also I don't want to eat some of the stuff that other growers use in theirs. Years ago we lived next to a huge potato field - lovely lush green growth all over. Next day, farmer arrives, sprays field. Following day, all the foliage is brown and withered. Then they harvest the spuds. I don't want that kind of stuff on my food, thank you .