north facing school garden...

[Edith]

I am in the process of trying to persuade my kids' school to let me use their raised beds to grow veg and fruit and so on in.

There are two problems, and I'd really like some advice on them. Bear in mind here that my budget is of course zero.

First, the big one, the raised beds are against a north facing wall. From what I have seen, although they are not actually in shade ALL the time, they are certainly shaded a lot of the time. The problem is that the the south facing wall is used by the kids for playing in. The raised beds are concreted in-to move them to the south wall would be a big expenditure that the school just can't make. So, how much point is there to growing vegetables in a quite shady bed? (I know it is a how long is a piece of string question-what I need to know is whether it is "forget it" or "give it a go". Bearing in mind that there will be kids growing stuff with me, so if it fails completely they will be disapointed. Plus also, before any sowing can be done, I'm going to have to replace the soil, probably out of my own pocket, because this soil is BAD) .

I do have 2 allotments of my own, so am not a complete novice, but tbh I stick either spinach and rhubarb, or sheds, in shady areas. I'd like to grow something more than spinach and rhubarb for the school.Obviously tomatoes are right out ;-)

Second, there is an apple tree in the raised bed, sapping most of the nutrients. Unless we do some sort of forest garden thing, I think it might have to go (I might need to do some convincing here, I don't know yet). I don't think I've ever seen it produce apples, and it is about 5 years old. I am assuming it is not producing because there are no other local apple trees, I have no idea as to variety etc. So question is: will it be possible to move a 5 year old tree, to, say a big container, without killing it? I could then get another tree, once I've worked out when this thing flowers, and hopefully sort out the no-apples thing.

This is literally the only space the school has available. It is a tiny school (nursery/infant), in bascially a converted house in a 2 up-2 down area. We're on the list for an allotment but the list is 3 years long...

Hope that makes a bit of sense and thanks for all replies.

ETA: oh by the way the tree isn't very big, maybe 1.2 metres? I don't think it has grown much since it arrived.

[zazen999]

HI Edith

I have the same problem, trying to make veggie gardens in schools; some are great with loads of room but some are tight for space and you really have to think laterally.

I'd remove the apple tree and get it in a pot and raffle it off to the parents and use the money to buy soil improver.

Then in the beds I'd grow mainly salad and spring onions. There are so many types of salad around with so many different colours and types of leaves and they all like the shade! You can add beetroot to that as well, and take some leaves but leave them to develop over the summer.

If some of the beds do get some light, I'd be tempted to make smaller raised beds on top of the actual beds; so that it raises the plant into the light a little bit more and then use that for something like a cucumber that will grow up a cane and thus will be able to get to the light.

And of course, tomatoes are out of the question anyway unless someone can get there to harvest them; and outside toms usually suffer from blight so it's probably not worth it in all honesty. A pepper or two might be a potential, again if you can raise the bed up a little in a small place.

[BigShot]

Does any part of the building have a flat roof? Maybe on an extension or something. If so it could be an idea to turn it into a green roof with space for growing. Costs shouldn't be too extortionate, especially if any of the kids' parents are tradesman who could donate some time and materials to building beds, making paths and (rather importantly) putting up a guard rail in accordance with building regulations.

It's a possibility at least.

[tamsin]

I'd be going around the local garden centre etc. for soil, compost, plants, seeds and tools. Offer to get the local press involved so they get the publicity in exchange. It's probably the wrong time of year now but in spring their are often schemes for schools/nurseries. We got two potato sacks and some seed potatoes.

If the apple is in the middle of the bed you could build raised beds in a circle around it leaving the apple in the middle. the roots won't grow up so you'll have the depth of those of good soil. You'd only need to go 6" for things like salad. You can grow an awful lot in containers so a circle of flower buckets would be a cheap easy way to do it.

Alternately, why not go for a woodland feel. I saw some great photos of an edible woodland garden on the allotment forum the other day. They had fruit trees, under planted with fruit bushes, under planted with strawberries.

Things like raspberries and blackberries (pick thornless varieties for kids) grow fine in shade.

What about classroom window sills? If they are facing the right way they would be perfect for something like sweet pepper. The kids we look after love watching them grow and change colour (and eating them of course).

[zazen999]

Alternately, why not go for a woodland feel. I saw some great photos of an edible woodland garden on the allotment forum the other day. They had fruit trees, under planted with fruit bushes, under planted with strawberries.

I've sort of got one of those [just took a photo this evening so I'm posting it now]...

Rasps, and a redcurrant with some snapdragons [random], with chives and nasturtiums round the sides and underplanted with strawbs.

[tamsin]

That looks great! It would look good for a longer period too, with lettuce you'd be picking in and have gaps part of the year. Also need less looking after once it was established.

[Edith]

Thanks all, lots of ideas

I think a forest garden could be great. My main issue here is cost/time. I could take cuttings off some of my own bushes, but then they'd take a while to establish...I'm going to give this one serious consideration, I remember reading that Joy Larkcom was harvesting berries 9 months of the year, so that almost makes the garden year round.

Another problem with a forest garden is that there might not be much to do week to week...

Because it is such a small school, oddly, keeping an eye on it over the summer is not a huge problem. I am fairly close by and I should be able to get a key.

No flat roofs, and the classroom windowsills face into a dark alley! So not much use.

Might look into high up plants on the south side-some fancy arrangements of hanging baskets...

[BigShot]

Tomatoes would grow well in hanging baskets.

how to plant hanging upsidedown tomatoes in hanging baskets... though I believe something that can hold more soil is preferable.

Upside-Down Hanging Self-Watering Earth-Filled Box! self watering but a bit more complicated.

Go Green Upside Down Hanging Planters a potential project for the kids... whether for the school or as a "take it home" thing.

You could also grow things on top of whatever planter you use too. Herbs maybe, flowers for prettyness. All sorts of choices, but obviously that would take a bit more watering.

[tamsin]

I don't see why you couldn't mix the forest garden in with some less forest-style plants. Underplanting with some lettuce or other salad crops that will tolerate shade.

Approach some garden centres and see what how they feel about sponsoring it. Offer an advert in the newsletter, publicity in the press etc. you'll be surprised how helpful some companies can be for a good cause.

[jackyspratty]

I'm not sure what area you are in? But it might be worth finding out if you have a local permculture network that could give you advise, you might get some volunteers too?

We have a local one in leeds and they run alsorts of groups and classes, and have a website so you can post questions etc. Migt be worth a go? This of course would be useful for the forest garden effect. We were hoping to do some growing at at our sons nursary, but the damn squirrels have trashed everythig planted outside. They are doing somethings indoors in pots tho.

[hamsterqueen]

what about containers and pots? beand and potatoes grow brilliantly in flower buckets.