Grafted tomatoes

[DavidJP]

Whats everyone's experience with these so far, I know they are commercially available. I tried grafting some myself onto HeMan rootstock and have been a little disappointed so far the grafted ones haven't got as big as the normally grown ones as yet. I know its early days yet though. My first time grafting (which is probably the explanation) and they suffered quite a set back from which I guess they are still recovering. I'll be interested to see the end result, the rootstock plants definitely grew much stronger to begin with and filled the pot really quickly but now after cutting off the top growth and replacing with the fruiting varieties they are only now beginning to catch up with the normally grown seed varieties.

[womble]

I've never used them, but using my common sense I can say this.
As fair as I am aware, virtually all the commercial growers use them, therefore they must be better in some ways than the std root.

I'm sure their roots to be grafted on are aimed towards the tomatoes being perfectly cared for their entire lives, right heat, humidity, watering, everything and they're probably picked for their growability in rockwool or whatever soilless growing they are using.
Also their grafting is probably done very very early in the year and under perfect conditions, your attempts won't come close to the perfection achieved by the commercials I'm afraid. But I don't say that as a criticism, I just have seen on TV the vast efforts to tidy up every last thing that could go wrong, that go into commercial growing.

So, I would think to get the best out of grafting, you are going to have to experiment and start them off very early.
I wish you all the best, because I wouldn't try it

[greg77]

i have tried the ones you buy from suttons etc and have to say they grow like triffids and produce twice the crop you would normally get but it feels like cheating and the satisfaction of growing from seed cant be beat.but if you just want a heavy crop they are great

[DavidJP]

I've never used them, but using my common sense I can say this.
As fair as I am aware, virtually all the commercial growers use them, therefore they must be better in some ways than the std root.

I'm sure their roots to be grafted on are aimed towards the tomatoes being perfectly cared for their entire lives, right heat, humidity, watering, everything and they're probably picked for their growability in rockwool or whatever soilless growing they are using.
Also their grafting is probably done very very early in the year and under perfect conditions, your attempts won't come close to the perfection achieved by the commercials I'm afraid. But I don't say that as a criticism, I just have seen on TV the vast efforts to tidy up every last thing that could go wrong, that go into commercial growing.

So, I would think to get the best out of grafting, you are going to have to experiment and start them off very early.
I wish you all the best, because I wouldn't try it

I got the inspiration from visiting a local commercial grower, Wight salads which grow quite a lot of toms for supermarkets. They had an open day that was quite interesting. As you say they are all grafted, grown in rockwool and each plant has about 40 trusses on it and about 35 ft long after they coil them round on nylon bobbins. I'm sure I waited until they were too well developed when I grafted, also I didn't have any clips to keep them in place and ended up using surgical tape. Still they have recovered somewhat and are nearly the same size as their compatriots who didn't get chopped so we'll wait and see. But at the moment not quite sure it was worth it but I like to have a go and experiment and it may turn out OK later on. The rootstock plants definitely grew faster.

[womble]

Keep us informed, I find it fascinating.

[Pies]

http://www.molesseeds.co.uk/flower_a...g_tomatoes.pdf

[Welsh Wizard]

Interesting science paper here on grafting: Yield increased by 11-35% at the expense of earliness.
http://www.horticultureresearch.net/...f%20tomato.pdf

Also found this abstract suggesting grafting eggplant onto tomato root stock resulting in higher quality fruit: eggplant is tricky to fruit at the best of times in UK so this may catch on....

Performance of eggplant grafted on tomato and eggplant rootstocks. | Passam, H. C., Stylianou, M., Kotsiras, A. | European Journal of Horticultural Science | Verlag Eugen Ulmer GmbH

The major reason for grafting explained best here:
http://aas.bf.uni-lj.si/november2004/03kacjan.pdf

"Continuous cropping is inevitable in vegetable production in indoor areas, and this reduces the yield and quality of produce. Oda (2004) reported that most of the damage from continuous cropping is caused by soil-born diseases and nematodes.
Since soil sterilization can never be complete, grafting has become an essential technique for the production of repeated crops of fruit-bearing vegetables grown in indoor areas.
Fusarium and Verticillium wilts , bacterial speck (Pseudomonas syringae p.v. tomato ), root knot nematodes (Melodogyne spp.) and corky root (Pyrenocheata lycopersici) have been reported to be among the most important soilborne pathogens of covered tomato crops (Besri, 2002, Augustin et al. 2002, Poffley, 2003). These pathogens used to be controlled by fumigants from which methyl bromide is the most popular because of its high inherent toxicity to almost all-living organism (bacteria, fungi, insects, nematodes) and its good distribution in the soil, penetrating it to great depths and killing pathogens at sites not accessible to other fumigants (Vakalounakis, 1990). However, in 1992, in the Copenhagen Amendment to the Montreal Protocol, methyl bromide was added to the list of substances that deplete the ozone layer"

Methyl bromide is being phased out as a pollutant. Without it the intensively grown toms die of diseases, so desperate measures are called for: grafting!

[chris]

Grown in rockwool?! Gross.

Are 'organically grown' toms grown in such ways too? i.e grown in such growing mediums but without pesticides?

[DavidJP]

Grown in rockwool?! Gross.

Are 'organically grown' toms grown in such ways too? i.e grown in such growing mediums but without pesticides?

Yes they are, I went round a large commercial grower here on the Island with about 20 acres of glass with both organic and non organic. Pretty much the only difference I could see was that the organic toms had a serious case of leaf miner which I think they must use chemicals on to control in the non organic glasshouses. The one thing they did seem to use was an incredible array of predators to control pests seemed like they had about a dozen different species available for different pests in both organic and non organic. Also with a cardboard box of bumblebees at the end of each row to pollinate. In all a very interesting visit. Much cheaper for them in the long term and quite a controlled science.
The plants get very very long and they're twisted round on nylon bobbins and one which they had teased out was easily about 40 ft long with about 35 trusses, all of that coming from a small rootball of rock wall about the size of your fist fed hydroponically. Great visit unfortunately they haven't repeated, just that one year.

[Tomatoking]

Yes they are, I went round a large commercial grower here on the Island with about 20 acres of glass with both organic and non organic. Pretty much the only difference I could see was that the organic toms had a serious case of leaf miner which I think they must use chemicals on to control in the non organic glasshouses. The one thing they did seem to use was an incredible array of predators to control pests seemed like they had about a dozen different species available for different pests in both organic and non organic. Also with a cardboard box of bumblebees at the end of each row to pollinate. In all a very interesting visit. Much cheaper for them in the long term and quite a controlled science.
The plants get very very long and they're twisted round on nylon bobbins and one which they had teased out was easily about 40 ft long with about 35 trusses, all of that coming from a small rootball of rock wall about the size of your fist fed hydroponically. Great visit unfortunately they haven't repeated, just that one year.

Hi David

Thanks for bringing back some fond memories for me from 35 years ago! I worked in a large nursery and grew exactly like that. High wire training and we also trimmed and lowered the plants on 6ft high electric trolleys that ran down the heating pipes.
We grew hydroponically in rock wall, and nutrients were added automatically to keep the NPK balance right. Tiny amounts of acid were added to keep the PH levels correct as well.
We used Encarcia Formosa parasites to control white fly and I think it was Phytoseiulus to control red spider mite.
As you say, the plants grow to about 40 feet, which is worth the investment for the season in biological control. I think you can buy smaller amounts now for amateur growers, but I think it will work out expensive for a short season.
I am sure things have moved on from my days, but I can imagine it was a real eye opener. We used to open the nursery for visits and had growers from Holland and the UK visiting us in Guernsey in the early days.
However, with the growing outbreaks of blight and canker on some nurseries, these visits were more controlled and I can still remember the visitors being issued with white coats and having to wipe thier shoes on a disinfectant mat before entering the greenhouses.
We even had to build little disinfectant water dips for everyone to drive through at the entrance to the nursery.
Did you manage to get any good photos? It would be nice to see them.
Thanks again for the post.

Mr TK. (who lost his crown years ago)

[DavidJP]

Some piccies from a visit to an Island Tomato grower
A long row of good looking tomatoes
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...1&d=1277753705

One plant laid out, truss number 21
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...1&d=1277753872

The tasting tent, small part thereof, had about 50 varieties to taste
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...1&d=1277753765

Getting a helping hand from the bumblebees
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...1&d=1277753859

[Tomatoking]

Very impressive David. You just missed out the train that runs down the rails.

I think I need a bigger polytunnel now.

Mr TK

[womble]

TK, would you consider using grafted tomatoes to grow at home?

And why?

[Tomatoking]

TK, would you consider using grafted tomatoes to grow at home?

And why?

Hi Womble, as I put in a previous post I lost my crown years ago, and that was before grafting started, so I have never actually done it.
I found this link which explains very simply how and why growers do it. Grafting Tomatoes.


I can understand why they are now doing it, because in commercial growing you always have to be one step ahead and always strive for an even more production to keep up with spiraling costs. It is very scary being a commercial grower or farmer nowdays, whereby your whole crop could be lost overnight and you had so much invested. I am so glad I do not have that worry now.

As for trying it at home, well I have a hard enough job getting my seedlings through the late winter, let alone chopping their heads off after a month.
Ok I suppose you could buy them , but that's not quite so much fun as raising your own plants.
If I do end up getting root diseases in my soil, then I will rest it for a few years and use grow bags.
To be honest, our season is not that long and the breeders are doing a fine job with new varieties every year, and so far I get more than enough toms off my plants.
If any does try some I would like to know how they got on though.

Saying all that I might try grafting my tomatoes with my grapevine!

[DavidJP]

I'm getting more positive about my grafted plants by the day. I started with HeMan rootstock (10 pounds for 50 seeds). The rootstocks by themselves were definitely more vigorous by quite a big margin compared to my other 6 varieties. But chopping off the tops and he relatively long period of getting the grafts to take properly meant that they were quite a ways behind the equivalent varieties conventionally grown.
However by now they have pretty much caught up and starting to overtake my normal varieties. I have them both inside and out and will see at the end of the season if it was worth it. I think there's definitely a knack to the grafting and probably the more you do the better you get plus I read there are special clips that are used, I ended up using electrical tape.
I did it more out of interest than anything and inspired by my visit to the local tom grower where they are all grafted. I understand in the US they use grafting to get a more vigorous version of some heirloom tomatoes which usually have low yields of large good tasting fruit.