A question about Runner Bean DNA....

[bazzaboy]

My local gardeners’ association organises an annual show each September and one of the categories is “longest runner bean”. One of the Fruit and Veg Show Judges Mr Alan Wright gave a talk at a gardener’s meeting earlier in the year and made available some “Blyton Rule” runner beans (Blyton is a local village a few miles north-east of Gainsborough) which he said grew to a good length - so I tried a few. Earlier in the season I picked and cooked some as standard runner beans – they were ok, nothing unusual – after which I left them largely to their own devices for a few weeks prior to the local show. A couple of days before the show I picked over them to try to select the longest ones and there were several of respectable length (say 18”), which, as it happens, got me 3rd prize in the competition. But I also discovered one MONSTER FREAK RUNNER BEAN, the longest runner bean I’ve ever seen at about two foot* (* but see p.s.1 below). There was only one of these in the whole row (from 12 plants) and it won First Prize easily in the local show, by several inches even.

So now to the question! Will the seed of the longest bean produce more longest beans or is that over-simplistic, does DNA etc not work quite like that? (e.g. I’m conscious of the old thing saying that large shallots produce small ones and small shallots produce large ones etc…). I have now picked all the remaining beans but not shelled them - if I am saving beans specifically for “the longest bean” should I discard all the shorter ones?

Thanks for any info. bb.

*p.s. 1: Although I was pleased to win First Prize it’s a long way short of records… I believe the Guinness World Record is held by America (1997, 51 inches!) and the longest recorded in UK is 34.6 inches (also 1997).

p.s. 2: A note for the Seed Swappers: I should end up with several spare beans so if anyone wants a few to try for the longest local bean 2011 (no guarantees!) PM me and we’ll sort out some SAE arrangement.

[zazen999]

If you select from the longest beans then you will hopefully breed long beans....so yes - save the ones from the longest and you should have long beans.

Unfortunately there is no guarantee as there could always be a quirk [I saved black beans last year and sent some to Seahorse and I got black AND white beans from them and she only got white.....what's THAT all about?]

So if it were me, I'd keep the long ones separate and save from the shorter ones, and gorw both next year [in different beds] and then see what happens.

[StephenH]

Another, unrelated, question about runner bean D.N.A.: one seed firm (I can't remember which, but I'll try to find the catalogue again and get the details) recently advertised a new bean which is claimed to be a cross between a runner bean and a French bean. It looks like a runner, but apparantly has some of the characteristics of a Frenchy. Can Runners and Frenchys be hybridised in the normal way, or is it likely to be G.M.? Mind you, I think they'd've had to say if it was G.M.

[Flummery]

If you select from the longest beans then you will hopefully breed long beans....so yes - save the ones from the longest and you should have long beans.

Unfortunately there is no guarantee as there could always be a quirk [I saved black beans last year and sent some to Seahorse and I got black AND white beans from them and she only got white.....what's THAT all about?]

So if it were me, I'd keep the long ones separate and save from the shorter ones, and gorw both next year [in different beds] and then see what happens.

Zaz, if your black beans were a new cross (F1), then you don't select till the F2 generation when all the genetic jumble begins to shake down. It's several generations down the line that you get a stable, self perpetuating line. My F2s which included a navy blue, a cream and a speckled, gave some further variation in the F3 this year. The cream and the navy came true, sadly the beautiful speckled broke into cream, a single plant with speckled and some with a black marking on the hilum.

Genetics is impenetrable to me, but SO interesting!

[Flummery]

Another, unrelated, question about runner bean D.N.A.: one seed firm (I can't remember which, but I'll try to find the catalogue again and get the details) recently advertised a new bean which is claimed to be a cross between a runner bean and a French bean. It looks like a runner, but apparantly has some of the characteristics of a Frenchy. Can Runners and Frenchys be hybridised in the normal way, or is it likely to be G.M.? Mind you, I think they'd've had to say if it was G.M.

I think it's standard cross pollination here, which with beans is really fiddly. I'm saving a few seeds from these to see if they are self replicating - they didn't say F1 and they usually do - but they don't have to!

[blito]

and to think i`ve been picking 18" pods from my apptly named Enorma beans bought for pennies from the local Boyes outlet... but 24"! wow did you get a photo?

[Suky]

Another, unrelated, question about runner bean D.N.A.: one seed firm (I can't remember which, but I'll try to find the catalogue again and get the details) recently advertised a new bean which is claimed to be a cross between a runner bean and a French bean. It looks like a runner, but apparantly has some of the characteristics of a Frenchy. Can Runners and Frenchys be hybridised in the normal way, or is it likely to be G.M.? Mind you, I think they'd've had to say if it was G.M.

Think this is Moonlight, it is a self pollinating runner/french cross. Looks and tasted like a runner bean but should perform better in poor pollinating conditions. So says the blurb, I'll let you know as I have a pack for next year.

[Snadger]

I would deffo keep seed from the biggest all the time if size matters!

The small shallot/big shallot scenario is a completely different kettle of fish.. Large shallots have the embryo's of lots of small shalllots, thats what makes them big and vice versa for small shallots usually only having the embryo's of a few.
I find with potatoes that even though a 'hens egg' size of seed potato is recommended, if you plant large tatties you know that the parent has produced large tatties, and the offspring should do likewise being a vegetative reproduction.
Next time you go past a farmer planting tatties just have a look at the size they are (if maincrop) they are usually huge!

[SMT]

I grew long runner beans for the first time this year. Had some great success from just one plant. Though the plant has had a hard time of it through the season. Entered a 30.25 inch runner bean into the giant veg show at the East of England Veg show and came 1st place. You can see the pic in my 2010 diary Grower Diaries - BigPumpkins.com
Seen as it was only one plant I would imagine there had been no cross pollination from any unwanted beans so I was going to keep the seed for next year. However, someone swiped my bean after the show so I don't have those seeds!
I have just picked my last bean yesterday at 31inches so hopefully I'll be able to use that seed for next year instead.

I suppose I will only be able to answer your question next year after I see the results of my next season. Sounds like I was only 3.6inches off the UK record!

[SMT]

Oh btw. My plant grew lots of beans with the early ones growing to about 21-23inch but I only had the 2 next to one another that went to over 30 inch. Whether that is down the the temperature and soil conditions I don't know. They may all share the same genetics whether they are small or not from the same plant- possibly. But personally, I would just collect from the largest, straightest beans if it was me.

[Flummery]

Think this is Moonlight, it is a self pollinating runner/french cross. Looks and tasted like a runner bean but should perform better in poor pollinating conditions. So says the blurb, I'll let you know as I have a pack for next year.

I've just saved seed this year! I've found them an excellent eating 'runner' type - usually find even small runners a bit stringy and just don't like the texture. They are a lovely big white seed too - should make a decent 'butter bean' type of thing to use in winter.

I think if you are growing for length you won't get as many beans because you leave them on to mature - if you pick often you get more flowers and more seed setting so eventually, for eating purposes, a greater weight of beans. Or did I dream that?

[zazen999]

Zaz, if your black beans were a new cross (F1), then you don't select till the F2 generation when all the genetic jumble begins to shake down. It's several generations down the line that you get a stable, self perpetuating line. My F2s which included a navy blue, a cream and a speckled, gave some further variation in the F3 this year. The cream and the navy came true, sadly the beautiful speckled broke into cream, a single plant with speckled and some with a black marking on the hilum.

Genetics is impenetrable to me, but SO interesting!

I know - it's amazing! I am saving from the black and speckled ones from the F2s - but I just can't fathom how Claire got all whites when I got white and black and they were all from the same tray of 'rogues'.

[Snadger]

Think this is Moonlight, it is a self pollinating runner/french cross. Looks and tasted like a runner bean but should perform better in poor pollinating conditions. So says the blurb, I'll let you know as I have a pack for next year.

Runner Bean : Moonlight - Thompson & Morgan

Deffo one to add to my seed list for next year!

[bazzaboy]

Many thanks for all the comments, tips, suggestions, explanations... My longest bean only had 6 seeds so I'll grow those separately next year to see what results (photo attached, didn't have a 50p handy and live in hope) Sorry to hear of your sad loss SMT (wasn't me that nicked it, that's terrible isn't it?!) bb.

[SMT]

Flashing the cash there Bazzaboy! lol

Nice bean.