Burning of Monsanto Seeds

[Florence Fennel]

Fantastic!

[smallblueplanet]

I'm curious:

Is this Monsanto Rant informed opinion?

(I'm only playing devils advocate, but I'll be very happy to learn something new)

Well I'm informed. Suggest you google.

[Kristen]

I have Googled, that's why I asked.

If you have links to Peer Reviewed articles I would appreciate links please.

[smallblueplanet]

I have Googled, that's why I asked.

If you have links to Peer Reviewed articles I would appreciate links please.

Yes I spend all my time looking for links to peer-reviewed journal articles. If you have any I'll also be interested.

I'll say that if you're potentially starving and still you burn seed the farmers of Haiti must have a good reason - or perhaps its just a whim?

[Kristen]

Well.. here are my thoughts for what they are worth. Apologies for long rambling poorly constructed prose!

Yes I spend all my time looking for links to peer-reviewed journal articles. If you have any I'll also be interested.

I'm reluctant to think that Monsanto is able / capable of suppressing peer reviewed material, but I'm not naive enough to think it is impossible! (But I do think that man landed on the moon, rather than on the volcanic scenery of Tenerife!)

If Monsanto is influencing funding of scientists, such that no one will pursue research into adverse effects of Roundup / Glyphosate, then I would like to think that there will be a whistle-blower, somewhere, that will get the "ear" of a respected investigative journalist.

I haven't read anything peer reviewed, or heard a quality investigative journalist shout from the roof tops. Roundup has been with us a long time - enough time for side effects to come to light, and statistical analysis to put some weight behind the figures. (Lung cancer was deemed, by Tobacco companies, to be "nothing to do with smoking" for a long time ... but that resolved itself over time - how long from first exposure to conclusion? my Father smoked freely during the war and thereafter, and sadly died of lung cancer 40 years later, by which time we had a clear understanding of the risks - so I would think that was 30 or 40 years from "first concern" to "proven fact" . We've had that long with Roundup)

So, until then, I'm going to have to give the benefit of the doubt, if that's is even a fair analogy to make, to Roundup. (Just to be clear: I use it, but I am cautious in my use, and other than initial clearing of the vegetable patch, I only use it for scrub control and not anywhere near our food production - not because of any tangible worry, but just the 0.00001% "nagging doubt factor")

I'll say that if you're potentially starving and still you burn seed the farmers of Haiti must have a good reason - or perhaps its just a whim?

My take is slightly different in that I'm not comfortable with what the media normally feeds me. Consistently I have found that they tell me what they want me to hear ... a bit like the Supermarkets telling me that what I have asked for is tasteless, immaculate-looking, veg!

Why would Monsanto, knowing that they have a global problem with PR on GMO, send seeds covered in noxious fungicides to a developing nation as a philanthropic gesture? Their PR people would tell them that sending a suitcase full of cash (which they can easily afford, eh?!) would be a much better public statement.

I'm doubtful that it is as clear-cut as the media make it out to be. Of course its also possible that someone in the PR department at Monsanto has made a monumental cockup-up!

[SarzWix]

Did you read the article Kristen? There are an awful lot of footnotes and links within the article to the author's research. Perhaps you could springboard from there?

[solway cropper]

I'm not anti-GM per se and I neither know nor care whether or not Monsanto suppresses research but what I do find objectionable is their bully-boy tactics in dealing with anyone who has the gall to question what they are doing. Like most other huge conglomerates they appear to be above both national and international law because of the enormous economic power they wield. What the peasant farmers did might be nothing more than spitting in the wind but it's a gesture and should be applauded by all of us who care about such old fashioned notions as as personal freedom and the rights of people to determine their own futures.

rant over.

[Kristen]

I did read the article, but not the footnotes. Thanks for that, I will check.

[zazen999]

Even if they didn't do it - just the publicity of them [perhaps] doing it might make people think a bit more about stuff.

And I'm being deliberately vague!

[Sarz got there before me, there are loads of footnotes and links on the article for your perusal].

[Jeanied]

Aw c'mon Kirsten - any company that decides to take out a worldwide patent on Basmati rice definitely is not here for any altruistic benefit!

[Kristen]

OK, I've read the links.

The seed is not GM. (That's not to say it is suitable for Haiti; but heck us lot try new varieties every year, wow!'d by the seed catalogues, I'm not convinced that the planet can support the increasing population by using the old varieties; when I was a lad we were lucky to get 1 ton of Wheat per acre, now we get around 4 (and that's conventional breeding, bot GM). For sure there are risks, but I doubt that doing nothing is a valid strategy for feeding the planet either)

I'm disappointed by the article in the Huffington post (a publication I have high regard for)

Beverly Bell: Haitian Farmers Commit to Burning Monsanto Hybrid Seeds

Whilst saying that the seeds are not GM the article is written in a way that is overtly scaremongering. Journalists of respected publications must be careful to maintain balance.

The seeds were coated in noxious fungicides. At first I thought that was a really stupid idea in a 3rd world country. However, other than the risk to the people handling them I'm not sure what issues there are, long term. Assuming farmers were instructed how to handle them then there is a reasonable chance that the fungicides will improve germination, and thus yield, at a time when people are starving and "results" are paramount. From the links provided it appears that Monsanto informed the Haiti authorities about these additives in advance (but I can see how easily that could be misunderstood).

Here's a contrary quote to the reaction of the farmers in Haiti: "A similar donation of hybrid seed to Malawi a few years ago produced a five-fold yield increase—enough food to feed a million people for a year."

(Note hybrid rather than GM !)

Of the remainder the links didn't work, or there were no links provided.

If I understand it correctly Monsanto provided the seeds to the Haiti government (i.e. free) for them to sell (at a knock down price) to the farmers. So am I to believe that the farmers purchased them, and then set light to them?

I doubt that Monsanto's motives are entirely philanthropic ... but I'm struggling to see what's in it for Monsanto? and I am left wondering what the motives of the people in Haiti are. They had huge promises from the West, that have evaporated. Maybe they are needing to wake the West up to keep the promises that we made?

[King Carrot]

One of the issues, they are not happy with the seeds is the fact that they are hybrid - absolutely no good to them for seed in the future. How do among the poorest people afford seed for next years crop when their usual variety which they have probably saved and grown for generations has either been destroyed or eaten in the aftermath. Now if Monsanto had given them an OP seed...............

[Kristen]

Aw c'mon Kirsten - any company that decides to take out a worldwide patent on Basmati rice definitely is not here for any altruistic benefit!

You familiar with it? I'm not. But I am familiar with Intellectual Properly law.

Someone who invents something (A special rice plant, or a mobile phone, or a photocopier) gets a Patent giving them, say, a 20 year monopoly in return for publishing details of the "invention". That publication is open to all, rather than it being maintained as a trade-secret - like the recipe for Heinz Tomato Ketchup! - and is the deal that is made in return for the monopoly on the invention and is intended to enable other companies to try to improve on the original invention.

I remember back in the '70s when advances in plant breeding were somewhat state driven (which can be much more altruistic of course). If memory serves me all the "Maris XXX" spuds were from the Cambridge Plant Breeding Institute which (relying on my memory again) was a government institution. But I also remember visiting to the "ICI Plant Breeding Institute" which, although run like an academic institution, without careful guarding of trade secrets, was presumably owned by ICI.

Most of them got hived off or split up, one way or another, and over time they've all become a slave to profits and shareholders, like the bankers. I'm not sure that's a good thing, but until someone moves plant breeding back to state control that's where we are.

[Kristen]

One of the issues, they are not happy with the seeds is the fact that they are hybrid - absolutely no good to them for seed in the future.

I see that as a two edged sword. In the next year or so they have mouths to feed and need to maximise their harvest.

I know lots of members on this forum are keen to grow, and maintain, Open Pollination varieties. Me too - I have a wonderful "no name" OP Butternut Squash that I grow.

On the flip side I have grown lots of F1 varieties over the years when I was weak-of-mind and got suckered by the glossy seed catalogues! - and they have been a waste of time and my money.

But I have also grown F1 all-female Cucumbers, and F1 short-season Sweet corn, and there are F1's for disease resistance etc, which have helped amateur gardeners.

I think a longer proving-time would be better, rather than just "chuck some seed at them" after an emergency, but there is clearly a problem in Haiti and the West is not helping (although they did promise to ...).

I also think that Monsanto's objectives are probably suspect ...

But why can't they grow Hybrid varieties now to feed their population? They will still have their native varieties to grow in future years, and maybe Hybrid is what they need to increase their yields and be more easily able to feed the population? In the '60s & '70s we trippled our wheat yield, through careful breeding, because of concerns about how we would feed our growing population ...

[zazen999]

But why can't they grow Hybrid varieties now to feed their population? They will still have their native varieties to grow in future years, and maybe Hybrid is what they need to increase their yields and be more easily able to feed the population? In the '60s & '70s we trippled our wheat yield, through careful breeding, because of concerns about how we would feed our growing population ...

Because of the Terminator Gene...

Monsanto Terminator Technology -- Worldwide Famine & Starvation

ETA: We don't know for sure where Monsanto are with this - no doubt before we ever actually know, it will be 'out there'; once your seeds are contaminated with Monsanto's pollen, then they aren't your seeds any more. They pwned you.