Crops rotation & raised beds

[newmannewy]

Ok im having a meltdown.. I'm going to create some raised beds and have been reading up on this forum and using google. However i'm struggling to comprehend how to fully go about it.

If crops are supposed to be rotated for instance, Brassicas, legumes, Alliums to Roots & back to Brassicas.. And brassicas need firm soil, and other veg need loamy soil, and you cant manure root veg, and something else needs limeing then how do you achieve this every year ?

Are we supposed to change the soil every time its used to suit the next crop cycle ?

I just don't get it. It seems one type of soil is good for one type of veg, then why rotate the soil ? And how do you rotate the beds, when they all need completely different soil.. Surely if I add manure one year for one veg, then it isnt going to perform well for the next cycle of veg that doesnt like manure, and the same with limeing... Wont the veg bed be too limey for the next veg to go in it if its been limed the year before?

Im confused.

[gojiberry]

It is usual to manure in the autumn for the following years crop. The year after that it will be the next veg in the rotation but it will have been 18months since the ground had been manured so no problem. Similar with liming, although you need to make sure you don't go overboard with the lime. I dont tend to lime the whole bed but just lime around the planting hole when planting out the brassicas. Hope this helps.

Ian

[Sylvan]

The plant that you have added the manure for uses most of it. There is still some effect the following year, so you use something like beans and peas, or courgettes, that will appreciate it. By the time you get to the carrots a few years down the line there's hardly any effect at all.

Potatoes love manure and don't like lime (and you shouldn't use lime and manure at the same time anyway) so you manure before the potatoes and lime after them.
Or you could lime immediately before the brassicas (they're supposed to need the lime to help them resist clubroot).

You leave as long as possible before planting the same crop again so its diseases have a chance to die. Don't plant tomatoes just before or after potatoes because they're related, so suffer from some of the same diseases.

As far as brassicas needing firm soil goes, I just make sure I firm the individual plants in well (since I never dig the raised beds anyway).

[newmannewy]

Thanks you 2. allayed my fears a bit..

May I ask, I only started growing 2 years ago and I had 10mm seived soil, which turned out to not be that great as its FULL of little stones.. My carrots tended to be real bobbly as they grew around the stones..

Any recomendations for sorting the problem out.. Would it be a case of seiving 3 tonnes of soil by hand or should I just order a skip get rid of it all and start a fresh. With some better soil.

U see where I have my little plot the soil is too wet, not good drainage.. Even with 10 million stones in it.. So im taking the soil off anyway to lay garden fleece a layer of stones for drainage and then garden fleece into the bottom of the planters to put the soil back on. Basically to give the growing soil a 2-3" drainage gap.

what would you recomend ?

[Two_Sheds]

Little stones (is it gravel?) aren't really a problem unless for carrots, which you could grow in separate pots of their own.

As to soil, start making loads & loads of your own compost - in the autumn collect all the leaves you can and make leafmould.

As for now ... go out and collect some molehills (there are loads suddenly popped up in our road and the soil is lovely)

[zazen999]

I don't understand why you are laying fleece under soil for drainage?

If you are using raised beds, you won't need to dig out a load of soil, as the raising of the beds will assist the drainage.

Grow carrots in pots in home made compost, and use that to mulch the beds when the carrots are harvested.

The reason that we rotate crops is for pest and diseases, and if [for example] your pH needs hanging for one crop you do the whole bed and thus you don't waste fertiliser.

However - not all of us rotate whole crops as we aren't farmers and so, unless there is a huge issue with [for example] clubroot - full rotation is a little bit OTT.

What we do, on our lottie, is to rotate the potatoes into the next beds clockwise round the plot [we have one central bed with rasps and soft fruit, so can rotate around the plot] and then, just don't follow one crop with the same family. We also intersperse things, so in with beans will be a few beetroots, and some bunching onions, the odd patch of leeks, some garlic, a squash or pumpkin nestled in the corner; so no bed really has the opportunity to build up pests or diseases; and we companion plant flowers such as limanthes, nasturtiums, tagetes, marigolds etc to drag the insects into the veg plants.


If we got a major problem, then we would just make sure the problem crop avoided that bed for a while, and we will rest a bed every now and then and just use it as a compost heap to build up fertility [at the end of the season, we would remove the unrotted crops to another bed, and sow green manures over the winter].

It's up to you how you manage your beds, strict rotation, rotate one crop or just 'pocket plant' in dribs and drabs which ensures that no bed ever has 'all of one thing' in it which prevents pest and disease build up in the first place.

[newmannewy]

I don't understand why you are laying fleece under soil for drainage?

The fleece is to supress the weeds under the stones, to stop them coming through and looking untidy.. Besides I hate weeding stoney patches

If you are using raised beds, you won't need to dig out a load of soil, as the raising of the beds will assist the drainage.

The reason I need a stone base underneath the raised beds is because theres a slight gradient to the land behind our house and the water off the neighbours gardnes (behind us) runs down and collects on my little plot..

The fleece used in the bottom of the planters would just be to keep the soil away from the stones.. and stop them mixing.. My plan is the water hits the soil, drains through to the fleece and then through the stones.. the stones acting as a little soak away.

full rotation is a little bit OTT.

I think I may have a bit of this.. OTT


I do not have room for a compost heap.. Im really short on room. This is all in the back garden of a modern house (not much garden at all)..

Thanks for all the advise folks!.

[Alison]

The fleece is to supress the weeds under the stones, to stop them coming through and looking untidy.. Besides I hate weeding stoney patches

Ah, you mean a geotextile rather than fleece. Although in theory you can use fleece, it will tear easily and isn't as strong as a geotextile and I'd have thought the likes of horsetail etc would get through it easily enough. It is worth remembering though that a lot of weeds come from the surface by wind spread seeds rather than from below. I have found that my beds which were covered with enviromesh to keep cabbage white etc off my brassicas are considerably less weedy at the end of the season than ones which haven't been despite probably being weeded rather less.

[zazen999]

Aah - use a few layers of cardboard or newspaper. Much cheaper.

[newmannewy]

yes my mistake - the weed suppressant stuff, not the fleece

I have done a small patch..3ft x 2ft been seiving by hand for 2 days..put some stone down, put some weed suppressant stuff down and threw my soil back in once riddled.. I then emptied 3 bags of "brought vegetable growing compost" into it to liven it up.. It basically just made the soil id riddled look like mud.. lol

oh well we live & we learn.. Im ordering a skip - It will be the most expensive 6ftx6ft veg patch you ever seen ! - I may even get a neon sign for it saying "Welcome To Veggie Vegas"

[zazen999]

oh well we live & we learn.. Im ordering a skip - It will be the most expensive 6ftx6ft veg patch you ever seen ! - I may even get a neon sign for it saying "Welcome To Veggie Vegas"

It's your money! I prefer to keep mine in my bank account.