Permaculture

[sweetcorn]

Anyone out there used this method? We've put down layers of cardboard and then about 6" horse manure. It looks good, but I'm thinking planting seeds is not possible! So I have had to plant loads of stuff in modules to plant out. We've planted some cabbages through the cardboard and the spuds can go through the cardboard too, but things like broad beans have had to go in modules, for example. Anyone used this method, and how have you got on?

[zazen999]

Um, that's not permaculture per se.....that's no dig gardening.

And yes, start things off in modules and pots. I do it all the time; only parsnips and carrots get sown in situ.

[Lotsaveg]

Anyone out there used this method? We've put down layers of cardboard and then about 6" horse manure. It looks good, but I'm thinking planting seeds is not possible! So I have had to plant loads of stuff in modules to plant out. We've planted some cabbages through the cardboard and the spuds can go through the cardboard too, but things like broad beans have had to go in modules, for example. Anyone used this method, and how have you got on?

I hope your horse manure was well rotted. I used some a couple of years ago and I'm still fighting the weeds!!

[TonyF]

And manure can scorch the roots of the plants if its not well rotted.

As Z said, it's not permaculture, which is amuch more complex way of growing things and depends on levels of light, canopy cover from trees and shrubs and a lot more factors.

Just make sure that the hoss poo is ready to use and be careful what you plant - some things like parsnips and carrots can split and divide if they get too much manure.

[Two_Sheds]

Permaculture is akin to forest gardening, eg permanent trees & shrubs to provide food (nuts, fruit, seeds). Annual crops don't figure much if at all.

[sweetcorn]

No dig is a bit of a misleading term, I've discovered! Despite layers of cardboard some weeds have been coming through anyway!!!

I have planted my spuds through the cardboard now though, in the hope that the poo isn't too strong for it. I am going to be very interested to see how they do in this system.

Hadn't realised difference in terminology - still learning! I had thought forest gardens and permaculture were compatible but not one and the same!

We are gardening on an old meadow so there are literally hundreds of very pernicious and deep rooted perennial weeds that are impossible to dig up because of very heavy clay. So it's no dig, or nothing!!!

Thanks all for advice.

[Two_Sheds]

it's really DIG ONCE gardening. lack of light will seriously weaken those perennials: after 6-12 months they're easy to dig out

[zazen999]

No dig is a bit of a misleading term, I've discovered! Despite layers of cardboard some weeds have been coming through anyway!!!

Yes, perennials will force their way through - as Two_sheds says, you need to get rid of these first.

Stuff like horseradish will push up wooden pallets, so don't worry too much. Leave your spuds in, chop off weeds as they show - some will be from weed seeds in the manure so make sure you are identifying what type of weed is a permanent problem and what sort is just an annual that can be hoed.

The cardboard will kill off anything under it unless it grows through; it's then that you will know what is your biggest problem. When you get your crops out - the rotting card and manure will mix up nicely and you can mulch and just oik out perennial weeds from then on in.

[sweetcorn]

It's a marvellous plan then, if it works the way you describe. Am I right in understanding that if we just chop the tops off the nasties,eventually they will give up? I do hope so. Buttercups are a partic. problem.

[Sylvan]

Buttercups will keep coming back unless you dig them out from the paths between the beds as well. Those roots can travel an awfully long way underground.

[Queen bee]

There are worse weeds than buttercup.... Pumpkins are really very successfull (normally) on the no-dig beds. I grew amazing spinach last year on mine(the one not infested with perennial weeds). I am a big fan of no-dig systems and permaculture- permanant agriculture.qb

[TonyF]

If you're really interested in permaculture - my back garden is heading for a mix of permaculture where we're part clearing the woods and more traditional raised beds nearer the house - there is a good permaculture magazine available which also has features on green living, more eco-orientated than GYO and much more world-wide in its scope.

[Two_Sheds]

There are worse weeds than buttercup

Creeping buttercup is a nasty, persistent little weed that likes damp, acid soil (I get it on my bark paths). Once it likes a place, it spreads like chickenpox

Burying it doesn't work. You need to cut the crown right out then burn or drown it before it can be added to the compost heap

[sweetcorn]

We are cultivating part of an old meadow, and in one corner is a large tree (don't know what it is yet, might know when leaves start to form!) Under the tree are loads brambles and nettles, and there's a small hedge to one side. (About 25 feet of hedge). So this would prob. be the 'permaculture corner'. Not very large as you might be able to tell. The rest of the area we've done the cardboard and manure thing in beds of various sizes and shapes. I see you're in France,Tony, is the mag via subscription or can you get it in newsagents? What's it called??

[Two_Sheds]

loads brambles and nettles,...this would prob. be the 'permaculture corner'.

By permaculture, are you meaning that you want this area to provide food? That's what's intended by the term - it's a permanent method of horticulture This is a good book, I love dipping into it

Or are you thinking more of a wild bit of garden, perhaps for wildlife? If so, I really found this book to be insightful