Crop rotation question

[endymion]

This season, in our brand new veg patch, we're growing lots and lots of onions and leeks (because we like them) as well as a good mix of a few of everything else, but no potatoes.

Planning ahead for next year's crop and autumn planting we aren't sure which crop should follow what. We can't really follow the Brassicas -> Roots -> Legumes system because we aren't sure where the onions and leeks fit into the rotation. Can anybody help us out please?

Also, can we leave the Jerusalem artichokes where they are, in a semi-permanent position? Are they likely to be hit by anything other than slugs?

[rustylady]

First of all, you need to decide what crops you want to grow. How is your patch set out and how big is it? Raised beds or a border, or bigger?

You say you have a mix of everything else, but what exactly?

Jerusalem artichokes usually have a permanent spot, they are very resilient and will grow no matter what!

[Bramble_killer]

I follow Snadger's advice, don't grow the same things in the same spot! Just move them around. It's only my third year so nothing is mixed up yet but I'm starting to grow more beans and tomatoes than anything else so the rotation will be determined by where the beans and the tomatoes live

[endymion]

Thanks for your replies.

You say you have a mix of everything else, but what exactly?

It's a rectangular patch, which will eventually be raised about nine inches above the lawn, but there wasn't enough compost or cash to get it to the top of the boarded edging this year.

At one end there's an extra space to one side for rhubarb and Jerusalem artichokes, and where there'll be room for squash and cucumber on trellis leaning towards the fence. It's an easy corner to pile up some compost.

The rest are planted, or will be planted, in groups, in rows running N->S.
Lots of onions, shallots, garlic and leeks - almost half the area.
Two or three of each of Purple sprouting, Kohl Rabi, cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, Petit Posy. Some Kohl Rabi, because we've never eaten it before.
Squash - but none have bothered to germinate yet; a couple of cucumbers - both should grow up trellis.
A couple of rows of carrots, one of parsnips, half each of scorzonera and celeriac.
Purple, green and yellow dwarf French Beans mixed together (we hope it works); Broad Beans.
Lettuce and various salad leaves filling in spaces, and also in the flower beds.
Rhubarb and Jerusalem Artichokes.

There are various herbs dotted around the garden in amongst the flowers, and Horseradish in the sin bin!

Last year's tomatoes succumbed to blight, and next door's potatoes did the same, so we won't be growing either of them this year.

Jerusalem artichokes usually have a permanent spot, they are very resilient and will grow no matter what!

That's good, I was hoping to be able to leave them where they are.

... don't grow the same things in the same spot! Just move them around.

Do you try to follow a particular sequence, with one thing following another?

[chucks]

I'm using raised beds so it is a bit easier to rotate as I just move things from bed to bed each year.

I'm not too fussy but I do try and follow legumes with brassicas as much as possible for the nitrogen.

[endymion]

... I do try and follow legumes with brassicas as much as possible for the nitrogen.

Thanks, so that would probably be beans then brassicas, then roots and back to the beginning again. Sort of, with a bit of an overlap if we grow the same amount of onions etc again.

He got a bit, umm, enthusiastic when he found some lovely bags of different coloured onions and shallots and imagined gallons and gallons of multi-coloured pickled onions!

[Two_Sheds]

I divide my plot into quarters and do a Legumes -- Brassicas -- Alliums -- Roots rotation. Well I did until this year, because I got white rot in the soil.

I've now got Legumes -- Brassicas -- Squash/Corn -- Roots, and given onions a permanent bed of their own, and also one for spuds because my soil gives them scab. I'm gradually replacing the soil in both beds with compost & leafmold.

mixed bed | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

It's only a rough working plan though, and things like squash & sweetcorn just get fitted in wherever a gap appears

I don't worry about growing more of one thing than another and not fitting it in: I just fit in whatever I can in the proper space, and any extras get slotted in where they can fit

[Loudbarker1]

Lots of onions, shallots, garlic and leeks - almost half the area.

Having almost half the area in the same group is the problem for a "rotation". It sounds like the best you can have is an "alteration" of aliums (onion tribe) followed by others, and so far as you can rotate the others.

I have to say I wouldn't grow so many myself, even though I love leeks and shallots, if only because if the plot did get white rot, it would be good bye to all aliums for at least 7 years: the idea of going without home grown leeks for 7 years is too horrible to contemplate. My own taste would be to decrease the onions (cheap, easily available) and increase the bean tribe/PSB (expensive to buy and delicious when home grown).

A more radical idea might be not to have any kind of rotation at all and mix every thing up, having an onion next to a bean next to a cabbage next to a leek and so on. No guarantees offered here - but it might help build up of the alium specific pests and diseases another way.

The old boys always used to have a permanent onion bed - completely against modern orthodoxy - so perhaps we are fussing about nothing!

[zazen999]

You will be fine growing alliums........until you get white rot.

Then you could treat it the fallow year with a garlic spray which will bring the rot out and because it has no alliums to attack, it may die off.

Or you would have to cease growing alliums altogether.

I lurve alliums too - and would happily have half my plot given over to them but have white rot in places. And Mr Z wouldn't be too happily with me if I did.

w/r/t rotation; just don't follow like with like. So, get your head round your veg families - ie swedes and rocket are brassicas not roots or salads.....and rotate the things that you grow most of that can cause a problem. ie I rotate my spuds and everything else gets planted in blocks and when the blocks are harvested, something from a different family goes in. I have a new bed this year and it is exclusively onions from seed.

Also, do try Long Red Florence onions if you aren't already growing them. They are the most fantastic and you can grow them closer together as they are long and don't need as much space.

Also, for onion freaks - I buy those sprouting onion seeds - the price is ridiculously cheap for the amount of onions, and just grow them as random onions and stick a few in here there and everywhere. You don't know what they are buy it's a good cheap way of growing onions that you can use as spring or let them grow on for bigger sized onions.

And....

You can do a sowing in july/august of onion seeds, plant them out in sept/oct under cover [cloche] and they will grow happily now for an early harvest. Yum.

[Snadger]

You will be fine growing alliums........until you get white rot.

Then you could treat it the fallow year with a garlic spray which will bring the rot out and because it has no alliums to attack, it may die off.

Or you would have to cease growing alliums altogether.

I lurve alliums too - and would happily have half my plot given over to them but have white rot in places. And Mr Z wouldn't be too happily with me if I did.

w/r/t rotation; just don't follow like with like. So, get your head round your veg families - ie swedes and rocket are brassicas not roots or salads.....and rotate the things that you grow most of that can cause a problem. ie I rotate my spuds and everything else gets planted in blocks and when the blocks are harvested, something from a different family goes in. I have a new bed this year and it is exclusively onions from seed.

Also, do try Long Red Florence onions if you aren't already growing them. They are the most fantastic and you can grow them closer together as they are long and don't need as much space.
Also, for onion freaks - I buy those sprouting onion seeds - the price is ridiculously cheap for the amount of onions, and just grow them as random onions and stick a few in here there and everywhere. You don't know what they are buy it's a good cheap way of growing onions that you can use as spring or let them grow on for bigger sized onions.

And....

You can do a sowing in july/august of onion seeds, plant them out in sept/oct under cover [cloche] and they will grow happily now for an early harvest. Yum.

Agreed..........................

[endymion]

I love it! We've probably got too many onions for the area we've cultivated, thanks to his enthusiasm (we DO like onions, and get through loads each week), and then I'm offered some lovely suggestions for even more!

Could you tell me a bit more about these Long Red Florence Onions please, I've never heard of them. Same with the sprouting onions. ... Now you know why we'll probably run out of space, and will end up digging up some more of the lawn in the next couple of weeks.

I'm not sure how we would get white rot. This part of the garden doesn't seem to have been cultivated for many, many years, judging by the bits of broken crockery and glass we've dug out, and I don't think any of the neighbours veg are troubled with it. We've got big alliums in the flower borders, and they seem happy enough, so here's keeping my fingers crossed.

Two_Sheds, your mixed bed looks lovely. We've got most of our herbs in with our flowers, and a rhubarb too, which I'm fairly sure is Stockbridge Arrow, it's got such beautifully rich red stems. Our fruit bushes are in with the flowers too, it kind of works out okay.

Thanks everybody, for all your help with this. I reckon we'll be okay as long as we try to make sure it's never like following like, or even just shoving things in where there's a bit of space.

Straying slightly off topic, but still about veg - onions aren't particularly cheap these days. In the T** supermarket the other day they were selling bags of just 3 red onions for about �1.25, making them over 40p each!!!

[zazen999]

long red florence onions - Google Search

Sprouting Seeds Onion 1 packet

[Two_Sheds]

I'm not sure how we would get white rot.

I'm totally sure I got it from Wilkinson onion sets one year. I'd never ever had any problems before that. The seed onions I grew were unaffected, but now of course the disease is in my soil for years to come

[oldie]

I'm sure I got it from importing a ton bag of topsoil to fill my new raised beds. It was from a major supplier as well not an ebay/freecycle offer.

[Liza]

I'm totally sure I got it from Wilkinson onion sets one year. I'd never ever had any problems before that. The seed onions I grew were unaffected, but now of course the disease is in my soil for years to come

I got my sets from Wilkinsons last year and ended up with white rot too