Tiny plot despair and plea and too many capital letters

[BroadRipple]

I seem to fall between two categories: the 'I only have a patio' newbies and the 'small garden' gang - every time I read (magazines, books, web) about a 'small garden' it's never as small as mine! I have a genuinely titchy London garden with space for pots, and sun, hooray, so am not complaining...except that my only real vegetable-growing space is 4m x1 metre, without much scope for expansion. and though I dream of greenhouses and orchards, no chance of that for now.
SURELY there are others on this wonderful, cheering, helpful forum in a similar position?
And, if so, a)can we start sharing tips in one place - maybe there is one already? just an example - do courgettes do better in the ground than containers (have had little luck either way) and if the latter, how small a container is realistic?
b)WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT CROP ROTATION? ARGHGHGHGHGHGHGHG.
I keep thinking I've hit on a plan, and then realise that my baby kale can't possibly follow my adult broad beans as there's no room in their patch, none at all, and my head explodes...any ideas? I'm heading towards the no-rotation plan, but my space and organisational skills mean that it's all very well saying 'don't plant a cabbage after a cabbage' but the minute I've pulled one out of the chaos, I can't remember it was there...
Suggestions, solidarity and soothing noises gratefully received...

[smilingshoe]

I've only just got an allotment , before that I've been growing veg in pots for years and years.

After many years I invested in large square and rectangular deep pots. This meant I could fit alot more into the space and move things around as needed. The straight edges mean that I could but them all up together, if necessary to create a whole solid block to entirely fill a space similar to the dimensions your describing. I grew runner beans, courgettes, chard, tomatoes, chillies, cucumbers ( attached a trellis to the fence next to the pot), leeks, strawberries, salad leaves, rocket, herbs, mangetout and a few flowers.

I think it would be a great idea to have a dedicated area on this site for discussing maximising growing in slightly tighter amounts of space , I know it would have helped me masses

As for crop rotation, I just didn't use the same pot for that veg in the following year and slightly refreshed the compost .

[smilingshoe]

Sorry I just realised I didn't do the soothing noises, ( cooo cooo ?? !! ( is that soothing not sure) . Your doing really great , honestly just keep keeping on .

[buzzingtalk]

i have about the same space as you except my space must include 3 bins and the door to my house. but i grow about 30 strawb plants, 12 toms, 6 blueberry plants, rhubarb, lots of salad trays, 2 cucumbers, a nice herb garden, garlic, ginger, courgettes...so fire away!

as for 'crop rotation' i only recently started looking into it. last year i put all of my used bought compost at OH's mums house, as she has lots of composters. this year i have reduced pot sizes, thus reducing my need for compost. I've spent about £50 in total on compost and i still have bags of it left! we don't even get much sun in my 'garden' (sun is there until 1pm then off it goes for another day) and managed to get big crops. i shall post some pictures next week

[mrpaulbradley]

Remember you can go up the way too! Window boxes, hanging baskets. In fact get out the thread on here. One brilliant idea ( not mine! ) is to hang guttering on wall for salad crops etc. Also helps to keep slugs at bay.
I've got pots on top of bike sheds, bins, sheds, potting tables and all sorts.
A pal and I are about to experiment with led lights in a blowaway so that lower shelves get more light, but no heat issues.
Use your imagination. It's amazing what you can squeeze into a small garden. Look at the 'square foot' garden idea too. Fascinating stuff.

[LittleShamrock]

I probably have about the same amount of space as yourself, but its all gravel so I grow in pots and hanging/wall baskets. I try to grow dwarf varieties were possible, and train other stuff upwards. Also, I can't grow everything I'd like to, so I have to prioritise the veg I want, and try to manage the limited sunlight too.

[Florence Fennel]

It sounds to me like you're doing fine BR, so keep at it. There's loads of advice to be had on here, search the threads and look around. I grew courgettes in builder's buckets last year, but I'm going back to putting them in the ground this year as the yield seems better. If you're putting them in containers, make sure they're big enough and feed them. I wish you every success, happy growing.

[gan heather]

Have you thought about "wall gardening" to give more space? I don't do it, but I've seen others do it to great success. Here's an article about one woman's experiments with it (including lists of which veg performed well and which didn't). There are also lots of products you can buy to attach to walls to grow vertically (if you're not into DIY). Things from Allotment Ladders (or something similar). There's also a fantastic wall of salads that I've seen grown at Capel Manor college using a similar product to an allotment ladder but I can't for the life of me remember who makes it. But I'm sure google would find it, if that interests you.

[Jo Sara]

My veg bed is only about 1.5m x 1m with a smaller 1m x 30cm-ish bed behind it against the fence. I've got mange tout in the smaller bed and peas, carrots, spring onions, broad beans, beetroot, leeks, sweetcorn, french beans, and eventually a courgette, if I think there's room, otherwise it'll go into a large bucket sized pot. On my 'patio' (a few uneven paving slabs about 1.5 x 1.5m) I've got 2 bucket pots of raspberries, 2 large pots with blueberries, 3 40 litre potato bags and a trough of 6 strawberry plants with 4 pots of strawberry plants in front of them. On the fence and on the house wall I've got 3 hanging baskets with tumbling toms in them.

Basically, I shove in what I want to grow. I wouldn't say I look after the soil in my veg bed particularly well (I really must manure it this autumn) and everything seems to do ok. I started the year with a really basic plan for my veg bed. I didn't worry about crop rotation too much because I figure that in my small space the roots would all be going into parts of the bed where they shouldn't be, according to crop rotation, anyway. And I know I'm not going to get a year's supply of veg out of my plot, but it's just nice to have some fresh veg, and it's fun to grow it all.

So my tips would be, use your fences/walls for hanging basket plants and maybe climbers like french beans, runners, and mange tout, and trailers like tomatoes. Use pots for things that don't mind it so much in pots, like fruit bushes, and you'll have more room in your veg bed for the things that you can't grow anywhere else.

Edit. Got me thinking on this now. Another tip for a small space would be to only grow what you like to eat. And be selective. I grow more of the more expensive to buy veg, like mange tout. Also, to keep costs down, I keep things in pots that don't need replacing each year, so my fruit bushes and plants. I just top dress with new compost and feed them with a liquid feed. That way I don't have to fork out on tons of compost every year. Potatoes in bags take a LOT of compost and aren't the most economical crop I've ever grown. But we love our spuds in this house and I just had to try them as everyone says they taste so much better than shop bought.

[Jelliebabe]

Hi Broadripple - check out what can be done in a small space/containers (in London too!)

Advice and Learning » Vertical Veg

Truly inspiring! Good luck!

[mothhawk]

Hi BroadRipple,
I fall into the same category, my veg garden is about 15ft by 4ft (sorry don't do metric), and it is sooo infuriating when gardening mags and programs talk about a small garden and really mean an area that is just under the half acre!

I know I will never be self-sufficient on such a small area, but I still get lots of veg I love to eat. I grow runner beans around 3 sides of the patch and get enough to eat all summer plus I freeze about 20lbs too, they are so prolific and easy care. I also grow new potatoes, planted in Feb to harvest in June, then in that space I put courgette and cabbage seedlings that I keep in pots till then.

I also squeeze in a row of parsnips and carrots. Among some of the potatoes are a few broad beans that I put in as seeds in October - well really the other way round - I couldn't fit all the seed potatoes in the space I had, so shoved the rest between the broad beans.

Don't like lettuce so don't grow it. Got 3 tomato seedlings I shall put in between the courgettes later on.

Also this year I bought a garden arch half price and intend to put a butternut squash plant up each side when I figure out where I can put it.

I don't worry about rotation, there just isn't room and everything is mixed in anyway, just put on lots of manure in autumn, plus any compost from the dalek. I don't use any chemical fertilisers or any pesticides 'cos I think they discourage/kill off the good guys in the garden and soil as well as the bad guys.

And I don't have the patience to water a lot of tubs, so I only grow in the ground (apart from starting things off). I expect my crops to put their feet well down and search for their own water, though I do mulch with well rotted compost/manure.

Then wherever I see a small space I dot other seeds such as beetroot, a few carrot seeds, florence fennel - some grow, some don't - it's all in the experimental, learn as I go stage, very much trial and error at the moment.

No doubt I grow most stuff far too close together to get maximum cropping, but at least I get something I've grown myself, and that pleases me no end!

[King Carrot]

Hi Broadripple - check out what can be done in a small space/containers (in London too!)

Advice and Learning » Vertical Veg

Truly inspiring! Good luck!

I saw that vertical veg site last year - like to have a look every now and again to see what's happening - amazing info and know how, for any container or spaced challenged veg grower.

[Jono]

Vertical Veg is brilliant.

If I were you, I'd stop complicating things with rotation plans and just stick stuff in. Enjoy yourself, and worry about rotation further down the line.

The advice about growing what you like and what is expensive is good too. I'd recommend growing butternut squash, as they are pricey in the shops, and can be trained upwards. They keep for ages too.

I grow peas in containers. These are good to just keep growing as they freeze so well.

Herbs, lettuces and radishes are also great, as you can plant them anywhere you have a spare gap.

Try cut and come again veg like perpetual spinach too. That'll maximise crops from a small space.

[BroadRipple]

Thank you all for your encouragement and experiences...haven't checked out that vertical veg site yet but I will, and am toying with the square foot concept. I do grow a lot, don't think I'm still at the bare earth stage - it's just a)annoyance that there isn't more room and b)difficulty working out the hows as well as the whats. oh and c)I seem to be unable to find a way to remember which teeny patch of earth is where yesterday I pulled up some kale or a cabbage...ridiculous but true. If I could crack that, I wouldn't worry about crop rotation so much.
A neighbour has an INCREDIBLE vertical garden on the front of their house; am wondering how to ask them about it. Mad stalkerish note through door, I'm thinking...
Thanks again. Upward ho.
Gan Heather - very encouraging, thank you.

[BroadRipple]

oh good lord, a very funny coincidence...I've read some posts on this blog, as it happens...and also admired a neighbour's extraordinary tomato windowboxes...and they're the same person! how exciting. Thanks for prompting me to have another look - I'm going to contact him RIGHT NOW!