hybrid V heirloom

[Alison]

Even Heritage stuff was hybridised at some stage, or we wouldn't have all the varieties we do have, so why shouldn't the process contnue?

There is a massive difference between hybrids and F1s, no problem at all with hybrids, this happens naturally over time anyway whereas F1s can't be saved and the seed companies have you over a barrel. As I said above, I do use some F1s but try and minimise it as much as possible for this reason.

In my opinion there are F1 varieties that are worth buying/growing....ask the many people who grow Sungold tomatoes if they think they are worth growing

Not all all to me, far too sweet for my liking, grew them once as people raved about them and was totally unimpressed, prefer a more acidic tom personally

[Thelma Sanders]

but the seeds were still viable !?

the seeds from new hybrids are still viable, and sometimes the next generations do settle down and come true, it just takes time.

its worth it for commerical growers

and for us as well with some varieties, as I've already said

I have no experience with asia, so couldn't comment on their choice.

I really don't agree with genetic engineering, but hybridisation is just a continuing process in my opinion, and in this country we do have a choice.

As for the seed companies hoping we'll buy more seeds - of course or they would be out of business!

[Alison]

I think it's worth stressing that a hybrid is not necessarily and F1 but and F1 is a hybrid and it's F1s I'm talking about not the simple cross fertilisation which would result in a hybrid in the basic sense.

[Thelma Sanders]

making an f1 is simple cross pollination I believe.
As I understand it - it is just that the parents are selected/contolled to result in specific offspring, rather than anyold parents giving random offspring.

[oldie]

making an f1 is simple cross pollination I believe.

Not the case with commercially produced F1's.

[Alison]

Why grow Real Vegetable Seed? these guys sum it up much better than I can and their ethos is very close to my own. As already said, it is up to the individual to make their choice but I find it a compelling argument which has been borne out by my own experience.

[Thelma Sanders]

Not the case with commercially produced F1's.

How is it done then?
I haven't found anything on-line to suggest otherwise

[oldie]

My sister worked in plant research and development and did try to explain Mendels theories and their subsequent development to me. To much to put in a post. It is the word "simple" that does not fit in with the process of commercial production of F1 seeds. It is a complicated process that can take years and several generations of selecting parents to produce a viable seed.

[Thelma Sanders]

It is a complicated process that can take years and several generations of selecting parents to produce a viable seed.

granted, but it is still cross-pollination - rather than gentic fiddling
It's the parents that are strictly controlled to produce the desired variety - as I already said

At the end of the day, It's all down to personal choice when buying LOL

[Potstubsdustbins]

Just can't see what the fuss is about. its not genetic engineering it is a long process of hybridisation (if thats a word).

Grow what suits your taste buds and pocket and you won't go far wrong. I grow both for the simple reason I grow to eat so taste and reliability is very important.

As to being unable to save the seed I find F1 Tumbler can be saved and will come true for a number of years. Over the years I have also seen F1 seed lose the F1 label as it becomes stable.

Colin

[Two_Sheds]

Hybrids aren't GM, that's a whole different argument.

I'm not against hybrids (F1s) per se, some of them are very very good: Sungold tomato, Gladiator parsnip, Conqueror sweetcorn, Mars & Hooligan pumpkins. I couldn't grow sweetcorn at all if F1s weren't around (I've tried the op ones and they've been dismal).

I've just quickly looked at T&M's veg seed, and they're about 50/50 F1/op, so you certainly aren't being forced to buy F1.

You can save seed from F1s, but you aren't guaranteed, or even that likely, to get what you started with, although Flummery is successfully growing out some Sungold seeds.

Amateur gardeners aren't averse to a bit of hybridisation either: lots of us are pollinating with paintbrushes, trying to get a brand new colour of something

[Two_Sheds]

There is a massive difference between hybrids and F1s

Massive? As far as I can see, F1 tends to indicate that a human has intervened in the process, although it does happen in nature too: a mule is an F1 hybrid of a horse & a donkey.
According to Wiki (I know, rolly eyes) peppermint is a naturally occurring F1 too.

[Potstubsdustbins]

Following 2Sheds lead I have just had a quick glance at Marshalls & Suttons catalogues well under 50% F1.

It did occur to me as I looked at the number of runner beans (9 in one catalogue) available and not one an F1. That get that sort of variety of colours. sizes etc that at one time some of them must have been F1.

Colin

[Alison]

Massive? As far as I can see, F1 tends to indicate that a human has intervened in the process, although it does happen in nature too: a mule is an F1 hybrid of a horse & a donkey.
According to Wiki (I know, rolly eyes) peppermint is a naturally occurring F1 too.

Sorry, bad choice of wording, I was trying (badly ) to talk about the difference between crosses that occur somewhat randomly (or even deliberately) in the garden environment and the amount of effort and expense that goes in at commercial level. I think I get annoyed as they try and make out that it's all for our benefit when a lot (yes I know, not all) of it is to benefit commercial growers and seed merchants which is a shame and doesn't necessarily fit with the home grower.

[Thelma Sanders]

some of the breeding does help the gardener though doesn't it? I'm thinking rust resistant leeks and canker resistant parsnips to name just a few.
Which I for one am very grateful for