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  • #16
    Originally posted by Thelma Sanders View Post
    My moon planting book (Kollerstrom) says that St Patricks day is a root day as well! so I'll plant then as usual

    Is it the same in your method VVG? it's all interesting stuff isn't it
    That's for biodynamic TS, so only for those interested in doing it by the constellations. St P day no good for me as I am synodic (waxing/waning) this year. Coincidence or not? Yes it is very interesting...
    Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better...Albert Einstein

    Blog - @Twotheridge: For The Record - Sowing and Growing with a Virgin Veg Grower: Spring Has Now Sprung...Boing! http://vvgsowingandgrowing2012.blogs....html?spref=tw

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    • #17
      Originally posted by VirginVegGrower View Post
      In relation to this Year's Good Friday (6th April) there will be a full moon, which coincides with the best time to plant potato tubers, if following lunar planting (synodic)...spooky hey
      Thanks VVG. But not so much "spooky" because Easter is determined by the full moon so it's going to happen every year like that....

      Originally posted by Thelma Sanders View Post
      My moon planting book (Kollerstrom) says that St Patricks day is a root day as well! so I'll plant then as usual
      Is it the same in your method VVG? it's all interesting stuff isn't it
      Originally posted by VirginVegGrower View Post
      That's for biodynamic TS, so only for those interested in doing it by the constellations. St P day no good for me as I am synodic (waxing/waning) this year. Coincidence or not? Yes it is very interesting...
      As St Patrick's Day is fixed (March 17th) it's presumably sometimes going to fall in what's considered the best moon phase and other years not, whereas Easter will more or less always fit. But all three (strictly in alphabetical order Easter, Moon, St Patrick) are the same in appealing to or linking with a "higher authority" or "influence" to bring about success... Well even though I don't follow any of them avidly seems pretty sensible to me, I need all the assistance I can get....!

      Which leads on to my favourite question... I asked this once before and we all ended up with a headache, sorry..... But for new readers.....: when a seed potato is put in the ground (or indeed any seed in compost etc) and it's lying there in complete darkness how does it know which way is up for the shoots and leaves and which way is down or round and about for the roots? I recall the general solution was "gravity" but this does mean that potatoes (and seeds) can somehow SENSE gravity.... so they have "SENSE"? Now that is spooky....
      .

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      • #18
        BB When animals are born (take a lamb as an example), how does it know that it should stand on its feet, rather than wriggle along on its back with its little hooves pointing skyward? Its not gravity but its inbuilt knowledge of what will work for the best. I put it to you that the potato also has that "knowledge".

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        • #19
          Originally posted by bazzaboy View Post
          ....when a seed potato is put in the ground (or indeed any seed in compost etc) and it's lying there in complete darkness how does it know which way is up for the shoots and leaves and which way is down or round and about for the roots?
          It seems it is gravity and the plant/seed detects this, well according to this link anyway.
          How Do Roots Grow When the Direction of Gravity Changes?
          The more help a man has in his garden, the less it belongs to him.
          William M. Davies

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          • #20
            Baz, Bet you're at home now, looking out CD cases and blotting paper so that you can do the experiment - in the hope of proving it wrong!!
            Could you squeeze a little lamb into a CD case too and see if my theory works?

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            • #21
              Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post
              I put it to you that the potato also has that "knowledge".
              I agree VC, the precise words used are going to depend on definitions of "knowledge" and a common word in our computer age is "programmed" but either way it's extraordinary (and at least partly explains everyone on this list having a perpetual fascination with prompting it). Once in action they grow towards light, they have strategies for dealing with different situations but will invariably struggle to survive in adverse circumstances (well mine have to!); placed under threat many speed up their life reproductive cycle.... This does appear to be the application of a "programmed knowledge". But by the time this happens these are living organisms, as a seed most of this is dormant and if you think that's all packed into one celery seed or some even finer miniscule flower seeds it gets.... well, spooky! Magic? Spiritual? Add your own word.

              Originally posted by Paulieb View Post
              It seems it is gravity and the plant/seed detects this, well according to this link anyway.
              How Do Roots Grow When the Direction of Gravity Changes?
              Thanks Paulieb, excellent example. I can't find the original discussion on this topic on this site though I did find references to it so I didn't dream it. Seeds germinated in space evidently grow disorientated (I'm told divers must trust their bubbles are rising even though constant twisting in a weightless environment can cause them to believe the surface is in a different direction...). So we know the mechanics (including chemistry) of why seeds do it but we don't know how they found out... Presumably through constant recycling, "survival of fittest" etc.

              Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post
              Baz, Bet you're at home now, looking out CD cases and blotting paper so that you can do the experiment - in the hope of proving it wrong!!
              Could you squeeze a little lamb into a CD case too and see if my theory works?
              lol I'm more than happy that it's right (partic if the alternative is squeezing lambs into CD cases, messy) Interestingly a human baby would be the opposite of your lamb example and for some time not have the capacity to achieve head up. But in the case of the lamb you've moved into the animal world where I think it's more generally accepted that young are part pre-programmed and part copying the herd (or Mum). But plants don't copy Mum do they? (I always feel desperately sorry for parent (seed) potatoes when cropping their kids, talk about devotion to duty....). Most animals including humans can be trained by voice and sound (whistle etc) but plants? Are there plants that turn away if you shout at them? But at the same time it seems they are not inert or without feelings. I once saw a TV programmed attempting to demonstrate that a cauliflower "shrieked" when being cooked. Put me right off cauliflower cheese (for a week!)

              Crikey, treat your seed potatoes with kindness (desperate attempt to return this thread to its original question...), they are complex critters that merit a reasonably comfortable start, an encouraging environment and the odd treat!
              .

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              • #22
                Here's a plant with feelings! Mimosa Pudica - The Sensitive Plant - YouTube

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post
                  Here's a plant with feelings! Mimosa Pudica - The Sensitive Plant - YouTube
                  What an amazing plant.........reminds me a little of the venus flytrap.........I did say a little.
                  sigpic“Gorillas are very intelligent, but they don't have to be as delicate as chimps -- they can just smash open the termite nest,”
                  --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Official Member Of The Nutters Club - Rwanda Branch.
                  -------------------------------------------------------------------
                  Sent from my ZX Spectrum with no predictive text..........
                  -----------------------------------------------------------
                  KOYS - King Of Yellow Stickers..............

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                  • #24
                    I want one! I actually said "No, don't" when he held the lighter to it!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by veggiechicken View Post
                      I want one! I actually said "No, don't" when he held the lighter to it!
                      lol, very good. You now need to explain, please, how it does it.
                      If you don't twitch them regularly do they get unfit?
                      The danger of having one would be no friends calling coz they're tired of having to box the plants.
                      .

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                      • #26
                        I don't know how or why it does it but you can grow them from Seed - they're annuals. I suppose they're just too sensitive to last through a cold winter - but at least your friends may return then.

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                        • #27
                          Mimosa pudica is a strict annual- even in a heated and lit greenhouse (my mum works in a tropical butterfly hall, and has never overwintered one)- but I believe there is a perennial species that acts the same.
                          I used to grow 'em as a kid; they're great plants, but never lived all that long or flowered for me.

                          Anyway. I'm leaving my spuds a while longer yet!
                          My spiffy new lottie blog

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by bazzaboy View Post
                            when a seed... is put in the ground ... in complete darkness how does it know which way is up for the shoots and leaves
                            Don't they grow towards the light & the warmth? Phototropism is the plant's tendancy to "know" which way the source of light is.

                            I think this link might have been used already, about gravity: How do Plants Grow?

                            Gravitropism is the term for the plant's tendancy to "know" which way is up.

                            yes, I had to look those big words up
                            All gardeners know better than other gardeners." -- Chinese Proverb.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Two_Sheds View Post
                              Don't they grow towards the light & the warmth?
                              But they can't see the light because they're under the soil/compost..... Interesting answer if seeds could be that sensitive to temperature... but then if they grow their shoots/leaves towards the warmer temperature and had helpfully been placed in a propagator they'd grow upside down... I think it has to be a gravity sensor, like a marble in an empty eggshell, it will always settle in the bottom when gravity at work thereby pointing "down". But all that squashed into a celery seed? Clever! And it STILL means seeds and seedlings have "sense", "knowledge" whatever, and if that's a correct conclusion that must surely have profound consequences?

                              Yes this has been discussed before with all the same long words... but I can't find that earlier discussion. The Search facility isn't the most sophisticated feature but I've tried every which way (as I can recall some of the words and even the grapes who used them....) But all to no avail. Things disappear (like "Johnny's Allotment", where did that go?) I raised this seed orientation topic again because I think it's a basic question and thought newer grapes might be interested.
                              .

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                              • #30
                                Not sure about all the science above, but my Spuds always go in on 17th March, then the afternoon watching Cheltenham on the box
                                "We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses."-- Abraham Lincoln

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