Tom's gone floppy

[veggiechicken]

Yes, there should, and I did wonder if I should correct it or just let a friendly Vine point it out! Thanks VC.

My pleasure, P'n'K - that's what friends are for!
While we're on the subject, shouldn't Singleseeder's ' in her signature "cant'" be moved elsewhere?
I'm going now before you correct me and mine!

[singleseeder]

Hi guys, I'm still struggling with this problem of tom plants collapsing. Haven't sorted the piccie problem out yet either.

Over the last few weeks I have been really careful not to over water but the stems of some plants, right at soil level, appear to constrict and then the plant slowly softens and dries out. When I pull it up there seems to be almost no root at all. I've been potting what appear to be healthy plants into bigger pots and they don't have the amount of root I'd expect to see either.

I've had a look around 'tinterweb and there was mention of phosporus deficiency, the plants can't get it out of the compost if it is too cold, and also not enough nutrients if in seed compost which some of mine are as I thought it wouldn't hold the moisture too much. Also, foot and root rot, but this seemed to be about older plants.

Has anyone else had problems like this? I really would like to understand it.

[Potstubsdustbins]

Could be either foot rot or stem rot very hard to tell without a picci.

If I were having that trouble I would go the 'milk bottle' route before the plant dries out tu much.

Colin

[singleseeder]

Thanks Colin, luckily I have zillions of plants so should be alright. I'm guessing that the cold, damp weather isn't helping me much.

[Andromeda]

I've had tom problems this year as well, plants getting too wet and/or too cold leading to death. Pot on into a multipurpose compost instead of seed compost, go easy on the water and keep them out of direct chill. The sun should help to pep up a lot of plants as well.

Btw, make sure your pics are saved to jpeg format before trying to upload them, it reduces the file size dramatically when compared to bitmap (for example).

[taff]

Are they different varieties doing the same thing or the same variety? bought in seeds or self-saved seeds? All the ones flopping being treated the same as ones that aren't flopping? Flopping at aorund the same size or different sizes? Same compost for all the floppy ones as non-floppy ones? Clean pots used, or unclean ones?

More questions depending on what you say .....

and for perusing at your own speed...
http://www.thompson-morgan.com/damping-off

[Potstubsdustbins]

Sorry Taff but with the axe and the questions I think you have a new role in the wood.

'Chief Inquisitor'.

Tuck

[taff]

I can ask the questions, but that doesn't mean I know the answers, but hopefully someone else will

oh, andanother link for damping off, which is shorter and has pictures, so it looks nicer
The Dreaded Damping Off (and How to Prevent It)

I'm feeling all red queen at the moment...orf with his head!!!

[solway cropper]

I am really glad you know your possessives from your plurals! I'm not Peas'n'Kews for nothing... I have an apostophe phobia, along with a deep seated hatred of folk who can't tell the difference between "few" and "less" - perhaps I should've put this on a rant thread!!!

Fraid no idea about your toms, though!

What rogue apostrophe? Tom's is a contraction of tomatoes and would require an an apostrophe.

[Potstubsdustbins]

Its not the questions that worry me, its that darn great executioners axe.

Tuck

[singleseeder]

What rogue apostrophe? Tom's is a contraction of tomatoes and would require an an apostrophe.

You are absolutely right! Cheers...

Are they different varieties doing the same thing or the same variety? bought in seeds or self-saved seeds? All the ones flopping being treated the same as ones that aren't flopping? Flopping at aorund the same size or different sizes? Same compost for all the floppy ones as non-floppy ones? Clean pots used, or unclean ones?

More questions depending on what you say .....

and for perusing at your own speed...
Damping Off | Thompson & Morgan

I have approx a dozen varieties (F1, non F1 and heritage) none seem to suffer more than others. One or two were self saved. They are between 1 and 5 years old (I'm not called Singleseeder for nothing). Those that have succumbed were in new yog pots and 3" pots aswell as used pots (not scrubbed out ), all have had failures.

They have been in a cold greenhouse. Brought in or covered with bubble wrap when nights were very cold. Most plants have developed well and got to two to two and a half inches high, they are not 'seedlings'. The first sign of a problem is the stem withering at soil level and the top growth stopping growing and then going floppy. When I look a the roots of those I have pulled up they are very puny. Even some I have potted on have had a weak root system, not the vigorous white roots that go around the bottom of the pot.

I have potted some into the Gro-pots on top of the Grobags to see if that gives them a boost. They didn't have marvellous root sysems but they have new compost and I won't over water them.

It is because it seems a bit random, and a problem that has continues for some weeks, that I'm flummoxed. They might have been a bit too damp early on when the weather was warmer (remember then?) but I have been very careful since.

I must try and sort out piccies when I have time...... sorry.

[singleseeder]

Okay here's trying with piccies.



Yay... I think it's worked! Thanks TS, there'll be no stopping me now!

[taff]

Dr Hessayon, he say foot rot. Use sterilised soil/mpc for seedlings, avoid overwatering, increase venitilation, and maybe by building up the soil/mpc around the stem of the plant, you can encourage it to root from there.
He also says to water with Cheshunt compound, about which I have no clue....

[SarzWix]

I'm not sure this is anything to do with it, but those yoghurt pots let the light through. Might the roots be staying away from the sides of the pot to avoid the light? Also, I would say that the cold might be a major factor. My toms in a cold greenhouse are doing fine, but the tray they're in is standing on a double layer of horticultural fleece, which I then lift up and over the plants. They've stayed in this cocoon all day unless the sun is beating down (rare!). On the other hand, the plants in the school polytunnel have only had fleece over the top, and not underneath, and their growth has been much slower in comparison. As well as that, we've had several of the school plants keel over and die altogether, and those were planted into B&Q peat-free compost. Other plants we'd put into that compost have also been killed. On emptying the pots of the survivors to put them into different compost, we found that the roots just hadn't developed the way they should, they were very, very fine and wispy.
So I'd suggest a triple pronged approach: either change the pots or put them into something deep to exclude the light, keep the pots warm with fleece/bubblewrap/polystyrene/newspaper, and try changing the compost.

[Potstubsdustbins]

I was sat with an old gardener today having a beer whilst putting the world to rights and this subject came up as we have both suffered.

One theory discussed was that the weather in March kicked things off with early germination. The weather turned and ever since then light levels have been lower than usual.

Our theory is that maybe the light levels have been so low that plants have been putting all their energy into top growth to try and catch more light and that this has been done at the expense of root growth. We then get to a stage where the roots can no longer take up sufficient nutrient to support the plant and the plant weakens and falls over.

Colin