Propane or Paraffin?

[ashkat]

Hey,

We live in a part of the country that sees lower temps some nights all year round. Tonight, it's 6 degrees in my greenhouse.

I am going to do the obligatory polystyrene and bubble wrap in the next day or two, but am also looking at getting a heater. I would *like* to try and heat my greenhouse for part of the winter.

I *know* it isn't the greenest method around, but I have a family of 6 to feed and we spend extortionate amounts of money on fruit and veg each month.

I have looked at all the possible heating methods (including the natural ones) I can and keep coming back to these two. We would like to conceivably grow tenders on in the greenhouse early on. I can start things indoors, but sun is at a premium in the house so am really limited to enough space for several propogators. We would like to have the greenhouse full to bursting most of the year round with edibles.

Please, can someone advise me, in their opinion, which of these two options would be the safest and cheapest method to heat a well insolated greenhouse that is 6' x 12'?

Thank you so very much!

(please be easy on me, I've searched this forum for answers and understand that many people prefer not to heat their greenhouse etc)

[Urban]

I've thought a lot about this just lately, and I have decided I will be getting a thermostatic propane heater this year

I'll probably use it to prolong my season this year, and get stuff started off early next year
Sick of moving stuff in and out of the house, and the worry of cold nights, I think the gas bottles are fairly economical aswell

[Peas'n'Kews]

Don't forget that you need ventilation if you use either of these methods. And they affect the humidity (back to ventilation).

Have you considered an electric heater? It could be solar powered? Solar Heating | Dunster House Ltd. A UK solar heating company

That said, I don't even have a greenhouse (yet!) but have been reading up too....

[Snadger]

If money is an issue I would deffo go for paraffin as opposed to propane. Paraffin is still quite expensive these days and does give off a lot of water vapour, but is cheaper in the long run than propane I reckon
I've used a thermostacically controlled propane heater at one time and it cost an absolute fortune to run.
Electric under soil warming cables are cheap to run and great for propagating benches or suchlike.

A friend of mine has a 12 X 12 greenhouse made from double glased panels that he got for nowt when they were demolishing an office block. He has a small woodburner in it and burns waste wood. Most of the time his greenhouse is sub tropical and its a bit like walkibng into Kew gardens, all attained with minimal expenditure.

A 6X12 greenhouse isn't the most economical to heat bceause of its length. Your heat source at one end will make it hard to get an even heat throughout the greenhouse. A round greenhouse with the heat source in the centre gives the best heat dissipation, but I realise that most of us have to go with what we have.

Extending the growing season isn't just about heat either. Day length and outdoor temp play a big part especially where you live.

I've experimented with growing stuff in my unheated greenhouses over winter. I have a homemade woodburner which I light when I'm working in the main greenhouse but otherwise they aren't heated.
I don't think the extra hassle and expense of heating throughout the winter would be worth it without being able to control the day length, for my purposes anyway.
An option is to only heat a localised propagation area? If my greenhouse wasn't at the allotment, and was near to an electrical source, I would probably go for a soil warming cable for spring use.

[veggiechicken]

[QUOTE=Peas'n'Kews;1001636]
Have you considered an electric heater? It could be solar powered? Solar Heating | Dunster House Ltd. A UK solar heating company /QUOTE]
I don't think solar heating of a greenhouse would be an option, sorry. You would need a battery to store any power generated during the day, in order to release it at night when you need the heat.
Winter is not the best time for solar panels either.

[veggiechicken]

I'd use lots of bubble wrap insulation and zoning the GH to restrict the amount of heat required to the minimum. Or, you could keep chickens in there, using the Chicken/Greenhouse principle. The Chooks' heat would help to warm the GH overnight.
A Chicken Greenhouse Update: notes from the cutting edge of permaculture inventiveness/absurdity » Transition Culture

[Two_Sheds]

I am going to do the obligatory polystyrene and bubble wrap in the next day or two

You're going to cut out a lot of light with that, and light is more important than heat

I would *like* to try and heat my greenhouse for part of the winter.

You want to have heat to extend the growing season into late autumn, and start earlier in spring. There's no point at all in heating the gh if there isn't enough light ~ and there isn't enough light in the UK over winter months. I'm in the lightest part of the UK, and I can't get anything to grow at all Dec to Feb

We would like to have the greenhouse full to bursting most of the year round with edibles.

You can do that if you choose the most suitable crops, but not in the darkest months.

You should also be filling your chest freezer (or two) with seasonal produce: ours feeds us Dec to Feb when nothing comes out of the garden

A 6X12 greenhouse isn't the most economical to heat bceause of its length. ... A round greenhouse with the heat source in the centre gives the best heat dissipation

Perhaps you could section off one end, and just heat that bit? Although I think heated propagators would be more economical and more worthwhile

Extending the growing season isn't just about heat either. Day length and outdoor temp play a big part especially where you live.

I don't think the extra hassle and expense of heating throughout the winter would be worth it without being able to control the day length

Same here. Not worth the expense for what you get back (when veggies are 50p in Lidl, for instance)

[ashkat]

Thank you

I was pretty sure the darkest months would be a bust, thinking about it. It gets dark around 3-4 pm. Can you start veg inside in those months for moving late FEB/mar?

My other issue is that I don't have a cheap source of fruit and veg here. I don't drive and getting to a aldi or lidl costs about £5. Kind of defeats the purpose. I'm pretty determined to extend my Scottish season somehow. We eat meat, but with amount of veg we eat people would think were veggies lol.

My husband is going to take a caulking gun to the greenhouse today and seal the seams as it's those plastic panels it's not very frost proof at this moment. Unless there is a better option? The polystyrene and bubblewrap was really for these months to hopefully bring the inside temps up enough to avoid heating much at all during the summer months.

I guess I just want to get absolutely as much as I can out of this set up as I can as cheaply as I can. Over the next few years I'm looking, with the help of raised beds and containers, to take over as much of the fruit and veg this house consumes.

We are planning on jarring and freezing to buffer our dead growing months.

I'm the person, if I had more land, I would be looking into getting cattle and pigs as well as the chickens we are getting to become as self sufficient food wise as possible. That is my eventual goal.

[Urban]

I've actually started getting all the parts together for a wind power generator

I have the generators, charge controller, inverter etc, just need to find the time to actually build it

I run my pond equipment on solar, sadly its not running most of the time, so I wanted to add in wind power to the system, my plan was to have a 24v water heater as my dump load, this would be fitted to the water butt inside my greenhouse, Ive also got a couple of daylight low energy bulbs I'd run off the inverter when needed, they worked very well at bringing my seedlings on this year

We might not get much sun, but we get plenty of wind, we got a wind farm a couple of miles away

I'll post it in DIY if I ever get it done

[ashkat]

And....

Chickens in a greenhouse?! Wouldn't they eat everything?!

Off to read that link

[Snadger]

And....

Chickens in a greenhouse?! Wouldn't they eat everything?!

Off to read that link

The basic idea is that you join your chicken coop to the north face of your greenhouse with an open back of mesh facing onto your greenhouse.
During the day the chooks would be out in the run but in the evening when temperatures plunge they retire to the coop to roost. Chooks have good insulation with there feathers and as long as they are draft free can withstand severe winter temperatures.
The heat they give out in a well insulated coop whilst roosting could theoretically through the mesh partition that seperates them from the greenhouse, heat the greenhouse. In this scheme, they have no access to the greenhouse.

[ashkat]

That actually makes a lot of sense. Why not use something that's free (chook heat)?

However, the size of our garden wouldn't support us putting the chickens on the north face of the greenhouse not without infringing on the area we've set aside for the kids. I've got the whole eastern side for raised beds and chooks. The greenhouse has is set near the southern fence.

When we own our own house tho, I will seriously keep that in mind. Heat for free is nothing to turn your nose up at, especially if you are planning on keeping both.

Thanks!

[ashkat]

Whats the easiest way to add ventilation?

I got a norfolk greenhouse, one of the ones that aren't off a roll. It's got a (rather crap) sliding window in one side. We are trying to figure out a way to keep that window up right now.

Would the fact that window is pretty breezy offer enough ventilation for a propane or paraffin heater?

[veggiechicken]

The east side would be pretty good for chooks too if you can fit them in against the GH!

[Urban]

Norfolk greenhouse sounds a lot like the Argos one I used to have, god it was horrible

I used to use a triangular wedge, basically a door stop, and slide it in between the fame/window to keep it closed