Growing in Builder's bags

[veggiechicken]

The idea is that the bags will be used by individuals who would like allotments until we can find some land for those but they will be very visible to passers-by so I really hope they'll be attractive too. Its keeping them looking good all year round that may be the problem!

[snohare]

I use these as compost heaps and storage bags for leaves, etc on my lottie: I'm forever moving and mixing the contents over the year, so I have gotten to know them well. I'd suggest that they will last at least three years, possibly twice that, and they can be made to look nice.
If I was going to try and use a waste area, and screen off the unused bit, I would site these in lines of three or four, staggered so that they help hide the area behind them. Along the sides I would set pallets on their sides, painted nice bright colours (I fancy blue myself, but that is probably due to chronic lack of visible sky ), tied together at the corners to hold them upright, or if you have the resources, held upright by posts. Dare I say it, stones could work if you know any budding dykers. If worst came to worst, and you could not even find chipboard sheeting to paint as a screen, I'd be thinking of posts and wires or netting, with pots and climbing plants growing up the sides. If you are really desperate, stick some ivy or periwinkle in pots - but don't say I didn't warn you when it starts growing through the fabric as it climbs !
It's a lot easier to fill the bags once the pallets are in place, rather than have them sag and then start trying to straighten them out; but as I was finding just on Monday, once the sides do start to bulge, repeated kicks from a big enough boot will do wonders to flatten off the sides to a tidier looking appearance. I suppose whacking em with the flat of a spade would do the same, but you must do it as you fill.
I do agree, once they sag they look absolutely awful, really untidy and unsightly. But in rows, they can be tidy looking, much tidier than those in the photos. Half the secret there is getting clean ones - and frankly, builders use so many, getting some clean ones that have only had sand in them should be a dawdle. Failing that, netting doubled over hides a multitude of sins...
If you are going to double them over, I'd say bend the top inwards, it is much neater. (But gives a good hiding place for slugs.)

[veggiechicken]

Thanks Snohare! Very helpful - On the stroke of midnight too
Would you put the bags on pallets, or onto the ground? Any ideas on making drainage holes - how many would each one need?
Someone suggested making a square frame and folding the tops over the frame, to keep the bags square. Another suggested putting one bag inside another in case there were any weak points that developed. We shouldn't have any problem finding the bags, plenty of builders locally.
I'm away to my bed now, so don't think me rude if I ignore you for a few hours!!

[snohare]

De nada, Veggie.
My bags sit on the ground: no need for drainage holes, the fabric is permeable to moisture. In fact, I think that is why they are so amazingly quick as compost heaps - they insulate, but allow moisture vapour to flow both ways. If you do need drainage, simply pierce some holes in the sides, at the bottom. A screwdriver will do this. Right enough, for carrots I suppose it might help to have them on stoney ground rather than clay, so the moisture can drain more easily.
It's awfully stiff fabric, a devil of a job to put one inside the other without having insoluble creases appear. The first one I used as a compost heap, despite having thick cardboard "walls" inside to keep out light, sagged terribly; I ended up putting two three by three posts at the corners of the side it was tipping towards, and used them to prevent further toppling. Only later did I realise that I could have simply whacked it back into shape.
If you want to make a frame - and it's a natural idea - then I'd suggest posts of at least two by twos at all four corners, absolutely vertical in both dimensions, and cross pieces attached to the loops at the top, being careful to get the measurements right so that the sides are held taut both vertically and horizontally. The cross pieces don't have to be so thick, although if members of the public are going to lean on them you might want something like three by ones or three by twos.
Alternatively, try stapling horizontal pieces of flat timber to the sides, to keep them flat.
If you are short of planed timber, find someone who is cutting back leylandii hedging ( eg local tree surgeons), and use pieces of that timber, suitably trimmed, as rustic paling type stakes in a line, stuck into the ground. If you get good enough offcuts, you may even be able to nail cross pieces onto the tops of these, for people to lean across. This will only look good for about a year.
If you don't use framing, I think the key to keeping them straight is in filling them carefully, so that the pressure of the soil going in does not make them belly out. So no just dumping a wheelbarrow load in on top - shovelful at a time only ! (Much slower.) If you do have them in rows, fill them all at the same time, that way they will pack together and support each other, it will look much neater.
If you want lower ones, I'd say cut them with a hot knife or a blow torch , having first traced a line in marker pen at the height you want, and leave a bit extra to fold over and staple with a heavy duty staple gun, to give a neater finish. This will also give a sleeve or strong point to attach any framing to - you will have to cut the strops off, so you won't have them.
Oh, and you will have to remove the document pockets inside, because they harbour snails and collect rainwater. I usually leave the lids rolled back to one side, and then fold them over when finished; I suppose you could fold them down inside on one side for extra stiffness.
If you ask people for pallets, for goodness sake make sure they are all the same size and totally intact, they are a right royal PITA to work with otherwise, they will never look good. People are always keen to offload old pallets, once you get enough of them you will understand why...

[redser]

You could use cheap bamboo or willow screening around them to make them look a bit more attractive??

[bearded bloke]

VC,have you got a nearby Huws Gray ? they use nice green bags

[veggiechicken]

Never heard of them BB. Just goggled and they stop at mid Wales - don't venture south into cowboy country! Mostly TravisPerkins or Towy Works here - quite a lot of white bags that are OKish.

[veggiechicken]

Muchos Gracias, Snohare Lots of things to think about - I'll pass them on to those involved. I'm trying to remove myself from the project, but, if its going ahead, 'tis well if 'twere done properly from the outset

[snohare]

"If 'twere done, 'twere better it were done well", eh Lady MacVeggie...my, those intrigues at Upper Allotment Management Level really must be full of plots ! ( Ooh, sorry, is that you looking daggers at me I feel ? )

[veggiechicken]

Do not concern yourself, O Mighty Thane of Outer Lumphanan, for my dagger will find another use, mayhap whittling? I am best suited to the role of Witch (a part I played in the school performance) I have done more than my fair share of cauldron stirring lately.....
Actually the plot has thickened since I first asked about these bags. The grass verge has been weed sprayed by persons unknown (but could be the land owner) and this has caused some disquiet with potential bag-growers - and today, I have been summoned to a meeting with the Council next week about the disused buildings and land where we wanted land for allotments initially. I really thought that issue was finished.
I'm off to brew up a few slugs and snails in case I need a potion.....

[snohare]

I see your point, Veggie. (I'll not ask which witch you were, I'm sure it was a stirring role whatever.)
So...in spirit at least, you must have been up in this neck of the woods then. After all, MacBeth was killed just up the road, at MacBeth's Cairn, our local pub is the MacBeth Arms (ironic given that this was where his head parted from his neck), and just a day's ride North on a fast horse, is Cawdor. None of which I remembered when posting that last answer ! (But I am reading Terry Pratchett's "A Hat Full of Sky", and it's funny how the mind works...)
Perhaps your bagladies are verging on a riot, but I doubt we'd read about it in the papers. Things will probably continue to develop sluggishly, at a snail's pace, as you try to get folk to shell out...

[veggiechicken]

I'm ashamed to admit that I've never been to Scotland, in fact no further north than somewhere in the Yorkshire Moors and even then I was underground (don't ask because they'd kill me if I told you) So the closest I have been was in my role of Witch!! I can't shake off that image somehow.

[Potstubsdustbins]

VC don't tell me you were a caver in your youth, well if you were it would be a misspent youth.

Do tell.

Colin

[veggiechicken]

No, I was not a speleologist........ Are you trying to get rid of me, Potty?

[Potstubsdustbins]

Most certainly not. I thought we might have just bumped into each other. I was a member of Eldon Pothole Club and Derbyshire Cave Rescue many many years ago. I also spent quite a bit of time in Yorkshire and South Wales mostly underground or in the pub.

Colin