Green manure and seriously no dig

[Kaiya]

Quickie question really - I'm very much no dig, I've given up growing potatoes as even grubbing them out of the soil did my back in. However I have a pack of mixed Autumn green manure that I've so far chickened out of sowing because of the thought I may end up with a bed of 'weeds' I can't dig out. The mix is crimson clover, broad leafed clover, Westerwolths rye grass and white Tilney mustard.

Do all green manures need digging in or can some be strimmed/scythed/pulled/cut & covered instead? I'm a bit wary of basically replacing my easy to deal with marigold and borage 'weeds' with a rye grass!

[Newton]

I would like to know too..........

[alldigging]

You could probably cover them with something to kill them off and provide the worm happy environment to drag them into the soil.
Why not try a small patch that you can guarantee covering in the spring for a few weeks ad then if it's successful try more next year.

I don't think I'd use them - have just read something about how deep annual rye grass roots go - although this is what you probably want to help break down the soil instead of digging.

[veggiechicken]

I'd like a green manure that suffers instant death when I shout at it. That doesn't need digging in or strimming off, just dies off after a couple of months, shrivels on the soil and decomposes and leaves no seeds. Anyone suggestions?
?Mustard?

[Newton]

I got rye.....it's six inches high......I planted it and don't know why........I feel as if I want to cry.....

Or should I cover it with cardboard now.........I feel like such a silly ........

[zazen999]

All of the above are really easy to deal with except rye grass. Sorry. I don't touch rye grass.

The clovers, and phaecelia are really easy to pull out, with a hoe, rake or swoe and can be left on the top to let the worms compost them - or can easily be raked into a pile and left. I just swoosh my swoe/hoe across the soil surface, and leave them on the top.

But rye grass needs digging and chopping in. The reason this is so good for soil structures is that the root system breaks the soil up - which makes it harder to chop in.

Mustard is brill though - and if left will form quite thick stems which are really easily pulled and again, it can be left on the surface to rot down.

However most of my soil improvement techniques are based around straw, and cardboard, and composting 'in situ' so instead of having a compost bin, the daleks go straight onto the beds and once the compost is 'done' the dalek is removed and the resulting compost just raked straight over the bed.

Anyway - this might help when looking at no dig methods

http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ment_5573.html

and I've added a pic of some daleks in bed action. 'Situational Composting' I call it.

[Two_Sheds]

I agree with everything Zazen says (as per usual).

I've tried most green manures, and will never use rye grass again, it's just too tough for me to deal with.

I am mulching with everything these days: weeds, green manures, old foliage: it just gets chopped with secateurs (or shears) and left on the soil for the worms to pull down. It's improved my soil unbelievably, and it's no dig.

- phacelia, my favourite
- alfalfa, very prolific but semi-permanent
- crimson clover: lovely flowers, but always gets powdery mildew
- buckwheat: doesn't do well in shade, so no good soon within other plants

Photos in my facebook link below

[Kaiya]

Thank you all! Sounds like I certainly do not want rye grass! I shall give my Autumn mix away and get me some phacelia and mustard - I did chuck a packet of mustard over the potato bed this spring (when we were chatting about Gertrude) but it didn't take - maybe due to drought at the time.

I actually have a Spring/Summer mix too - got carried away buying seeds one day. This has White Tilney Mustard, Phacelia, Buckwheat and Sweet Clover in - which all sound ok to deal with from your advice above. It sounds like it's worth sowing this now even though it's past it's sowing dates (packet says March to Sept)? I rarely seem to need to cover soil in Spring/Summer - too many crops needing the ground. If I sow it now, since I've got it, hope it grows a little and let the frost kill it over winter, then get some pure phacelia and mustards for my next attempts - sound sensible?

My pot marigolds and borage form my living mulches at the moment - I've taken to leaving them on the soil also, only putting them in the daleks when the daleks specifically need green stuff. I've even left chopped up sweetcorn stems on the ground. I read they were good for overwintering bees etc. too. Looks a mess but I don't care what it looks like if it's healthy and beneficial

[Two_Sheds]

I've even left chopped up sweetcorn stems on the ground. I read they were good for overwintering bees

You don't have to chop them up (and it's probably more beneficial if you don't). Just leave the stalks where they are until you need the ground in the spring.

Messy? Nature doesn't like tidy

[solway cropper]

I've given up growing potatoes as even grubbing them out of the soil did my back in.

You can still grow spuds even with a bad back. I have a chronic arthritic condition in my spine which makes any bending extremely painful so I grow all my potatoes in containers placed on top of the soil. To harvest them I simply get down on my kneeler and tip out the container. Clean spuds and no risk of volunteers popping up next year as you can see even the smallest ones.

[binley100]

I tried potatoes on top of the soil this year. Just kept covering them up with straw, grass cuttings . So easy to harvest and amazingly very little slug damage either even with all the sploshy that we had keeping the covering wet.

[Vince G]

Grew a small patch of fenugreek this year - planted after I lifted my garlic. Suppose it was about 10ft x 3 ft. I'm in the process of covering over various parts of the lottie with tarpaulins for winter at the moment and so decided to dig some of the fenugreek into one part. It's surprisingly bulky, so you don't need to grow too much of it to provide a worthwhile addition to your soil. Hopefully it will break down a bit over the winter but not too much as our soil is very free draining, so I'm hoping it will provide a bit of water retention for the brassicas that will be growing there next year.

[Pinfold Plotter]

I grew crimson clover this year before I put my courgette and romanesco in. I let it flower and the bees went mad for it. It was really easy to strim, then dig in, and with a heavy mulch of chopped cardboard and straw on surrounding the veg, it hasn't come back.

[Newton]

I have covered my rye with cardboard. Hopefully it will now rot down a la no dig!