Green Manure

[Blue Radish]

I bought some green manure seeds earlier in the year and was thinking of planting some areas with them but noticed that the sowing time was July to September. They are then dug into the soil in February or March. Is it too late to put them in now? The seeds are Rye, Vetch, Italian Ryegrass and Forage Pea. Thanks.

[Alison]

Hello and welcome. Where abouts are you based? You can put your location in your profile which helps people to know roughly what conditions you'll have. To be honest, you might be OK but you're really pushing it for them now. If we get a mild spell then the Ryegrass might be OK but not really convinced. I sowed a load late last year but that was still September and then the weather was good........

[Two_Sheds]

Too late, ime.

You could sow them now, but they probably won't germinate until the spring (mine didn't), when you're going to need the ground for spring crops.

It's very tricky to get the green manures in at the right time: I've learnt over the years to sow them just alongside your ripening crops, just a couple of weeks before it's due to come out. That way, they get their little roots down a bit, and get going to cover the soil before the frosts arrive (any day now).

The point of them is to have empty ground covered with foliage when winter sets in, so use a winter hardy one and sow early enough.

(btw, I didn't like rye grass: it was too tough for me to pull up/dig in).

[PMW]

I sowed some Hungarian Grazing Rye and Phacelia around my courgette and tomato plants on the 30th September. What I assume is the Rye is now growing well and about 5in high and the Phacelia about half that.

I removed the courgettes and toms at the weekend and chucked a few extra seeds down in the gaps left behind. I've not grown a green manure before so don't really know what I'm doing, but there didn't seem much to loose.

[Two_Sheds]

I sowed some ... Phacelia ... is now growing well .I've not grown a green manure before so don't really know what I'm doing

Phacelia doesn't tolerate the cold very well, so expect to see it knocked back by frost. Some of it will probably regenerate in the spring though

[chris]

My Phacelia is only a few inches tall :/ Bit annoying - guess I'll cover with cardboard + compost for my unused beds this winter !

[VirginVegGrower]

So why is Phacelia sold as an overwintering green manure then? I too have sown it on that basis. Think I'll be using cardboard and looking for manure that's free of weedkiller again.
Rye is supposed to be hard to chop in.

[Alison]

I know a lot of people moan about rye but it pulls up really easily so in the spring a pull it all up by hand then chop it up a bit. Leave it on the surface for a week or so then fork lightly in. Find it works well and isn't much effort at all but it might depend on your soil type.

[VirginVegGrower]

I know a lot of people moan about rye but it pulls up really easily so in the spring a pull it all up by hand then chop it up a bit. Leave it on the surface for a week or so then fork lightly in. Find it works well and isn't much effort at all but it might depend on your soil type.

I'm free draining soil Alison, so would that suit? People put me off when they said it was hard to dig in. I don't mind pulling it. I need to stop the rain washing everything out of my soil and I need a weed smotherer.

[Alison]

Should be OK then VVG (although don't blame me..............), mine is a bit on the silty side although getting better.

[VirginVegGrower]

Should be OK then VVG (although don't blame me..............), mine is a bit on the silty side although getting better.

I'll give it a go. You can get different types - I've been having a look. There's an easier one to dig in called annual ryegrass. Anyone used that? I don't really want to dig in the bed though. I'm trying to "no dig".

[Shadylane]

So why is Phacelia sold as an overwintering green manure then? I too have sown it on that basis.

It can survive a mild winter I think. I'm sure some of mine made it through last year but generally it's not totally hardy.

[VirginVegGrower]

It can survive a mild winter I think. I'm sure some of mine made it through last year but generally it's not totally hardy.

I've sown some, so I'll see how it fares. If it rots on the top, at least it will do something. We are an exposed site. I'll broadcast rye on the rest. Thank you.

[Two_Sheds]

So why is Phacelia sold as an overwintering green manure then?

It's annoying isn't it? I lost a lot of mine last winter, but enough seeds survived in the soil for it to regenerate in the spring.

"Phacelia is a ... hardy annual green manure that germinates at low temperatures ...and is tolerant of cold temperatures and may over-winter if it’s not too cold." Green Manure Seeds - Phacelia

So it's hardy, but only if it's not TOO cold, whatever that means

[Vince G]

I grew phacelia around the outside of my polytunnel, just to make it look a little less stark. Sowed in (I think) May. Got to about 18" high then flowered, dried out and shed seeds everywhere, so having pulled up the dried out plants to give a bit of dry matter to the compost bin (and probably a nice bit of bedding for our resident rat!) I've now got a second flush coming up, although from the sounds of it, the frost might do for it.

I suppose if you want it to dig into your plot, you might need to pull it up whilst it's still fairly lush and before the seeds set after flowering. Don't pull it up before it's flowered though as the bees love it, and having surrounded my polytunnel with the stuff, I found I got quite a bit of bee action in the poly. The bees may well have discovered the poly anyway, but I like to think I attracted more by planting the phacelia.