Advice on temporary hedge/frost barrier

[Feral007]

Last year I overwintered plants for the first time and it was great. This year I'm planning to have a lot more plants go in.

Started already, and plan to successional plant all autumn/winter.

Today I was looking at the front garden. I have two rows of corn on the west side. This is the hottest side in summer, so it was for protection from the heat.
But now there is frosts starting, and although I've lost the pumpkin vine to frost, the gramma is still hanging in there - due mainly I think, the protection fromt he corn.

So I'm wondering if there is any winter crop I can put in that might give some wind/frost protection? I am sowing broad beans in loo rolls, so I could put them up perhaps on chicken wire? On both sides? Or is there anything else?

Otherwise, I might just have to revert to haybales again. They did work before, but I don't have any atm, and it will be a month I guess till I have any chance of getting any more.

[gingerbilly]

Hi Feral,

From what compass direction do you get your coldest winter winds??

I use a close grown 7ft high beech hedge for my garden winter protection from my north east/easterly winds....it definitely works for me......

Beech hedging keeps it's last years leaves right through winter until May and then sheds them just prior to the new season growth.....giving good early leaf composting material.

Just out of interest, what altitude are you gardening at and what type of soil do you have??

[Feral007]

Hi Gingerbilly, we're just under 800 m above sea leve. The soil is not great at all. It's quite silty and easy to dig, but very thin topsoil, lots of rock in the top soil, and basically lots of rock underneath.

I wouldn't be able to grow any trees in the front yard where the garden is. There are 3 silver birches in the front yard, but I've not been able to grow anything else really, camellia's and other bushes go fine for about 18 months and then turn their toes up when they hit rock. I've two apple trees around the side and they are ok after 3 years.

I think it was wishful thinking about frost barriers. I think I'll have to go with hay bales for that.

But I'm wondering if maybe rosemary hedging? For some protection from wind and heat in summer, for the first seedlings?

Is there anything other than rosemary, or something that will grow with rosemary, that I can use?
The corn did well, so I'll be putting some in next spring, and prob a lot thicker than this year. But while they are getting some height, and for winter, is ther anything else that might stand up to the conditions?

[Two_Sheds]

wondering if there is any winter crop I can put in that might give some wind/frost protection?

The only thing standing on my plot in winter are the raspberry canes, which I deliberately leave until late Feb to protect the soil from gales a bit.

At home, I have 6ft trellis fencing, which filters the wind a bit, as do any "shelter belts" of trees that you have. Gaia's Garden (again), has a good bit about shelter belts

[Feral007]

Not much soil for trees, so shelter belts of anything sounds like wishful thinking to me

I think the trelllis is probably the best bet atm. Altho I'd need to look at how to stake it up so it didn't take flight. We have winds from the east in one season, and from the west in another season.

I think once we get some thiings growing around the house yard it will improve. It's just getting the first ones happening that is difficult.

[iam]

where I live is a frost pocket, in the past my neighbor has had crops last six weeks after I lost mine to frost so I erected an open frame work fence and fitted green netting with a fine mesh to it it has been standing for eight years now and providing good shelter from wind and frost

[Glutton4...]

Feral, have you tried Lavender or Heathers?

[out in the cold]

What about Japanese Quince? Chaenomales (sp) is sometimes used for hedging and can be grown on large tubs, so should be ok in a couple of feet of soil. Fruits are quite nice too in late summer / autumn. They go well in shade so having the corn go next to them should be ok

[eirish]

Hi Gingerbilly, we're just under 800 m above sea leve. The soil is not great at all. It's quite silty and easy to dig, but very thin topsoil, lots of rock in the top soil, and basically lots of rock underneath.

I wouldn't be able to grow any trees in the front yard where the garden is. There are 3 silver birches in the front yard, but I've not been able to grow anything else really, camellia's and other bushes go fine for about 18 months and then turn their toes up when they hit rock. I've two apple trees around the side and they are ok after 3 years.

I think it was wishful thinking about frost barriers. I think I'll have to go with hay bales for that.

But I'm wondering if maybe rosemary hedging? For some protection from wind and heat in summer, for the first seedlings?

Is there anything other than rosemary, or something that will grow with rosemary, that I can use?
The corn did well, so I'll be putting some in next spring, and prob a lot thicker than this year. But while they are getting some height, and for winter, is ther anything else that might stand up to the conditions?

Trouble is, I'm not sure you'll get much useful advice from this forum, given how different your climate is to the UK. In some ways your conditions sound similar to my parents' in the high desert of southern New Mexico - dry, poor sandy soil, extremes of heat and cold. But then they don't have the problem of hitting rock generally, maybe more in the mountains. Rosemary does well there as long as it's kept watered, ditto a lot of salvias. I wonder if Russian sage, Perovskia atriplicifolia, would work for you? Or pines - I think a lot of them are adapted to poor shallow soil. But really, if 'twere me, I'd be thinking in terms of native species and looking at what does well for the neighbours.

[Feral007]

Neighbours are few and far between out here

Had a friend out from town who is into permaculture etc, and we were lamenting with her that so many of the things written for australia relate to the tropics and sub tropics, so totally useless for her or us.

We were looking at the back mountain areas and she was was saying...........if only we could get Peter Andrews to look at 'this' and give his opinion!

Received a booklet with our cold climate green manure seed, and they have mentioned Arrowroot as a hedging type plant. So I'm wondering now, would rosemary, lavendar and this Arrowroot shrub all make something of a barrier?

I shall be busily trying to take cuttings of the rosemary anyway, and getting some lavendar seed to see how that goes. Trying to do so much without much of a budget, I bet people with a huge gardening budget just get bored so easily

[alldigging]

So is it cold climate permaculture you need?


There's an interesting permaculture forum here permaculture Forum at permies

[Feral007]

Thanks alldigging, getting around to these different places is what gives me ideas that might work. It's pretty much hit and miss at times, but if you don't try it will def never happen.

[eirish]

How dry is it there? You could have a look at xeriscaping - geared toward desert areas, but a lot of the southwest US desert is high elevation and can get pretty cold in winter.

[Feral007]

I will have to look at xeriscaping now. We get pretty cold in winter, it's the pretty d@mn hot in summer as well, that does most plants in.

I'm going to try for the shrubby height atm. The section I want to protect is along a pathway. I may have to go with the shadecloth/trellis idea first, and work up to the hedge when I get enough cuttings to strike.
Thanks for the ideas. It's sometimes hard to get your brain to think straight.