What does everyone think of this idea? :)

[MarkHackwell]

I have seen this green manure which i was thinking of sowing round my brassicas to help fix nitrogen in the soil as well as help surpress the weeds. I also thought of putting it amongst my sweetcorn to keep the ground moist. Any idea on whether its a good idea?

Green Manure Seeds - Intercrop/Undersow Mix - Dobies of Devon

[kathycam]

If nothing else, it will give you ground cover. Give it a try!

[Mikey]

You could alternatively give them a drink of comfrey or nettle tea?

Have you tested the soil Mark, my brassicas follow my peas and beans which fix nitrogen during growth.

My not saying don't do it, but crop rotation should ensure that the right levels of nutrients are there any one time.

[mothhawk]

It won't give you nutrients for your crops until it is cut down and decomposed. It's going to be taking water out of the ground just the same as your cabbages and sweetcorn, for its own use. Just like "weeds", except it won't seed itself so promiscuously.

If you keep the top 2" of soil crumbly and friable, that breaks capillary action in the soil and stops water loss from evaporation.

[MarkHackwell]

I think i might give it a try and see what happens

It won't give you nutrients for your crops until it is cut down and decomposed. It's going to be taking water out of the ground just the same as your cabbages and sweetcorn, for its own use. Just like "weeds", except it won't seed itself so promiscuously.

If you keep the top 2" of soil crumbly and friable, that breaks capillary action in the soil and stops water loss from evaporation.

oooh yeah i didnt think about that :/ might give it a try on part of the allotment and see what happens and keep the other half clear and see which performs best . and yeah good tip there thanks

[Linzy]

Always better to have the ground covered in plants so i dont see why you shoudnt give it ago. I always plant nasturtiums with my brassicas, i eat th flowers, it looks pretty and it covers ground so weeds are suppressed

[mothhawk]

Always better to have the ground covered in plants so i dont see why you shoudnt give it ago. I always plant nasturtiums with my brassicas, i eat th flowers, it looks pretty and it covers ground so weeds are suppressed

Why is it always better? Weeds are plants too, why not just leave them if you want the ground covered?

Just my thoughts, but....

Bare earth loses very little water once a thin surface layer is completely dry as long as the capillary action is broken by making that thin layer crumbly and dusty. Sun and wind remove less water from bare earth than from plant leaves, which transpire moisture and draw up more from deep in the soil to replace it.

Plus bare earth absorbs more heat from the sun, and acts like a radiator to keep plants warmer through the night.

[kathyd]

I'm getting really confuzzled reading this thread... I've read repeatedly on here that it's best not to leave bare earth, because the weather leaches the goodness from it and weeds get the chance to thrive. I know this is mainly in the context of over winter when whole beds are left empty, but why doesn't the same apply at other times too?

And yes, I know that you only get the goodness from the green manures after cutting them down, but wouldn't you (or couldn't you) cut down something like say clover much earlier than brassicas, which often stay in the ground all winter anyway, and leave them on the surface for the worms to feed on? Wouldn't the crop benefit from the extra input of nitrogen at that stage? *scratches head *

[Two_Sheds]

Weeds are plants too, why not just leave them if you want the ground covered?

Yes, and I do. I only remove weeds when they get to flowering/seeding stage. All other times, I treat them as a (free) green manure

Bare earth loses very little water once a thin surface layer is completely dry

Yes, dry soil is a good mulch. To keep it dry, one must put the water down into the soil where it's needed by plant roots ~ don't water the soil surface, which will lead to evaporation and the germination of more weeds

wouldn't you (or couldn't you) cut down something like say clover much earlier than brassicas,

Yes, I do. I repeatedly chop up my weeds & green manures, and leave them on the surface as a mulch
The worms drag them down into the soil, which increases aeration (roots need oxygen as well as water).

[Two_Sheds]

I have seen this green manure which i was thinking of sowing round my brassicas

I'm not that fond of clovers, I find them quite hard to pull out, compared to limnanthes, which are pretty and a lovely bee plant.

They are very shallow rooted, so won't compete with brassicas for moisture (which have deeper roots) and are easy-peasy to pull up when you want to.

Or, just keep dry soil as your mulch, and see how that works.

[MarkHackwell]

Why is it always better? Weeds are plants too, why not just leave them if you want the ground covered?

Just my thoughts, but....

Bare earth loses very little water once a thin surface layer is completely dry as long as the capillary action is broken by making that thin layer crumbly and dusty. Sun and wind remove less water from bare earth than from plant leaves, which transpire moisture and draw up more from deep in the soil to replace it.

Plus bare earth absorbs more heat from the sun, and acts like a radiator to keep plants warmer through the night.

Around here it wouldnt be worth leaving the weeds in as much of it would be bind weed or couch grass so it would be a nightmare to get out if i left it in.

The other problem i have is because its clay soil when its dry its very dry and when its wet its very wet.

[kathycam]

You probably need to add more organic matter in then?

[kathyd]

The other thing you could try Mark would be to lay newspaper or cardboard around your plants, and weight down with some compost or weeds (not bindweed or couch grass though!) or even small rocks. This acts as a mulch and helps retain moisture and keeps weeds down etc, and then rots down into the ground later and helps improve the texture. I used paper last year around peas and beans because the cardboard was a bit thick, but I've got cardboard down on my brassica beds at the moment (or did until the chickens dug it all up...), and I'm planning on leaving that down and planting through it because the brassicas will have sturdier stems. See, lots of things to think about and endless choices to make .

[djhs196]

Give it a go - clover intercrops have been seen to have positive effects on reducing pests such as cabbage whites due to visual masking (?).

Check out the section on cabbages here for an overview:
http://oregonbd.org/Class/ftp/Intercrops.pdf

and a few more details bits here (I just read the summary):
EFFECTS OF INTERCROPPING WHITE CA... preview & related info | Mendeley

there are a few studies out there.

The clover will compete however with the main crop if both are started off at the same time, so the advice I've seen is that you give the main crop a good head start, and then do the intercrop later to minimise the impact on yield.

Thanks,
Douglas

[Dotty Sarah]

Another option (though you have many to think about already!) if you want ground cover around your sweetcorn you could always try planting some kind of squash to trail along.