Green manure query

[ourarka]

Hi everyone,

New to this forum as I have recently taken over my folks' considerable veggy garden. All going well but wanted to avoid farmyard manure as my two young dogs would just view it as a free buffet!! Seems to be only good things said about green manure, so am after some recommendations for the following areas:

1) Fallow area for 12 months, to be followed by broad/runner beans.
2) Over autumn/winter after beans, to be followed by brassicas.
3) Over autumn/winter after potatoes/sweetcorn, to be followed by onion crops.

Soil is clay dominant, some areas worse than others.

Thanks in advance.

[rustylady]

Hi, welcome to the Vine. Whereabouts are you? If you add your location to your profile it will show up on your posts.

I'm not an expert on green manures, don't seem to have room for them on my plot except in winter

Just curious as to why you intend to leave an area fallow for 12 months?

[ourarka]

Hiya,

I am in Hastings, East Sussex - right on the coast.

As for the fallow area, to be honest there is nothing else I want/need to grow that is not already incorporated in the other plots. I don't want to grow something just for the sake of it as have plenty of work to do in the garden already, without making extra work! I felt a allow plot, with a green manure, can only benefit the ground in the long run?

[The Allotment Shed]

Hi, I'm not far from you based in Lewes. I used a green manure on one of my areas to put something into the ground for the root veg to benefit from. It worked very well as I've harvested plenty of crops before others on my site. I used mustard and incorporated some BFB which is producing some very good results.
Good luck

[Two_Sheds]

there is nothing else I want/need to grow that is not already incorporated in the other plots.

Really? Have you already got kidney/butter/soya beans?

I put French and white runner beans in any vacant plot of land, leave them to dry on the plant, then pack the dried beans in glass jars to use all year round.

Very little work really, for the amount of produce you get.

[ourarka]

Ok! When I say "nothing else" that might be a bit of an exaggeration, but Mrs Ourarka not keen on kidney/butter beans (which is a shame) so would probably give them a miss.

[hellybore]

Hi Ourarka,
I'm in Hastings too! Phacelia is dead easy to grow and has really pretty flowers that the bees love

[WPG]

Hello Ourarka
I tried out a few green manures last year, and am most definitely a convert - it's really useful for suppressing weeds as well as for soil improvement. I used red and white clover, mustard, phacelia, and agricultural lupins. This year am intending to overwinter empty beds with hungarian grazing rye and winter tares.

My soil is heavy clay, and the phacelia in particular was great for breaking it up. I sowed it around Sept, and just left it in over winter - it had more or less died down by early spring and was very easy to dig in.

Just one thing to bear in mind though is crop rotation. For example mustard is in the brassica family, so don't use it where you want to follow with brassicas. The clovers, lupins and tares are in the legume family, so don't follow with peas/beans etc. Phacelia, buckwheat and winter tares can be followed by anything. The other thing to bear in mind is not to sow seeds direct into the soil for a few weeks after digging in the green manure, as germination can be retarded.

Hellybore - agree with you about the phacelia, I've put some in my flowerbeds this year cos its so pretty. Also the crimson clover has a gorgeous flower, I've planted some around the edges of my plot and the bees love it too.

[Vince G]

Hi Ourarka,
I'm in Hastings too! Phacelia is dead easy to grow and has really pretty flowers that the bees love
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Word of warning on phacelia - it self seeds everywhere, so if you don't want that, cut it down before the seed pods get too dry and split. However I planted it round the outside of my polytunnel for decoration / bees / green manure and deliberately let it self seed. I then compost it and get a brand new crop the following year from all the seeds it sheds. Obviously some seeds travel a way, so just manage the stray plants.

[Vince G]

Really? Have you already got kidney/butter/soya beans?

I put French and white runner beans in any vacant plot of land, leave them to dry on the plant, then pack the dried beans in glass jars to use all year round.

Very little work really, for the amount of produce you get.

Had a large kilner jar still half full of last year's dried borlotti - jar got smashed when we moved house 4 weeks ago. No more home made baked beans until the autumn - gutted

[Two_Sheds]

Word of warning on phacelia - it self seeds everywhere

Which is a good thing, because you only need to buy one pack of seed
It's very shallow rooted and easy to pull up if you want to. I let it self seed anywhere it likes, and I only pull it up when I want that space for a crop. The green manure then gets chopped up with seckies & dropped on the soil as a mulch

[ourarka]

My soil is heavy clay, and the phacelia in particular was great for breaking it up. I sowed it around Sept, and just left it in over winter - it had more or less died down by early spring and was very easy to dig

Did it flower during this period? Phacelia sounds like a popular choice but am wary of letting it go to seed, despite its gorgeous flowers. We have a pretty insect-friendly garden already and am wary of introducing something invasive ....... just as I am getting on top of the general garden maintenance!

[WPG]

Ourarka, yes I let it flower and then it died back around Dec, I dug the stems in around Feb-March. To be honest, I haven't noticed any phacelia seedlings at all this year. As Two Sheds says, it's very shallow rooted so wouldn't be a problem. I also let my mustard go to seed, and a couple of small plants of it have appeared, but they're also very easy to pull out. I didn't let the agricultural lupin go to flower last year (I needed the space) but this year curiosity has got the better of me and I'm going to leave it and see what the flowers look like.

[Feral007]

Had a large kilner jar still half full of last year's dried borlotti - jar got smashed when we moved house 4 weeks ago. No more home made baked beans until the autumn - gutted

Gutted, until next season when you'll be glutted!

We're trying the green manure to soften up compacted ground that we want to start under garden soon. We're using a mix of subclover, woolly pod vetch and fenugreek. It's come up really well, it's a cold season green mulch. And the legumes have innoculant supplied so that you get the nitrogen saving bugs on the roots (I think that's how it goes?) I think they are meant to grow for 8-10 weeks then slash before seeding, and leave on the ground as a mulch for around 6 weeks before planting.
We have to modify that sort of thing, as ours have been very slow to grow due to lack of water, but they are doing the job we wanted which is covering the soil, making it more workable, and adding nitrogen. So it's working for us.

They do say good choices for weed suppression are cowpea, lucerne and buckwheat.

As for the dogs............well I've discovered that whilst horse poo is looked upon as a delicacy by the dogs they will pop into the garden to retrieve a dry chip of poo whenever the smell strikes them, they are not so back with manure tea. They went looking for the poo the first time I put manure tea on the plants, but now they just look at me with a doleful face - because it smells good but it isn't edible. The other fertiliser tea's are good as well.