Winter onion sets and crop rotation

[buzzingtalk]

This might be a simple question but in my head I'm stuck - I have cleared my onion bed, and got my onion sets for winter ready to go in. But do I plant them in my onion bed (then rotate that plot next year) or do they go into the next bed in the rotation? Have tried looking in all my books but none mention when the best time to 'rotate' your beds is.
Cheers

[Kirk]

Much will say use the next bed, reduces build up of baddies in the same place.
Not sure of the real practicallity however on the smaler - garden - scale.

Rotation was traditionally on more of a farming scale and you planted legumes to add nitrogen, now you throw a handful of growmore over.

To me, and I know loads will disagree, growing on a garden scale and things like fertilisers sort of make it redundant. We will say add 4 inches of manure, try that on a 2 acre field.

If you get onion white rot for example then it will get everywhere pretty fast so growing in the same bed or the next one is fairly immaterial. You can spread it by your boots and digging fork quite easily. Bet you do not take biological control measures to pervent it.

[zazen999]

Pick a date in your head and use that.

My methodology is 'never follow like with like'.

So my onions go somewhere that hasn't had onions in the previous year.

I rotate the spuds round the plot clockwise and the rest goes where there is space and the same family hasn't come out. It keeps it really simple that way.

[Farmer_Gyles]

i've grown onions in the same bed for several years - winter followed by summer - normally starting them in small pots to give them a good headstart so that when one lot of onions comes up, the next lot go in ....

having reorganised my veggie patch, i'll be starting my winter onions in small pots and when i dig up the maincrop spuds, they'll go in the spuds bed .... next year, the spuds bed will be the salad / beans / courgettes bed .... i expect i'll have some summer onions in there too

[WendyC]

I will be moving mine onto next year's onion bed. However this depends on somewhere near me selling them this year! Can't find any!

[Alison]

To me rotation isn't an annual thing, it's a when things have finished ie I won't plant anything where it was before but beds can often be full of things from different families eg I follow onions into my brassica beds so there will still be loads of brassicas there when I plant out my winter onions / garlic but space will have been made from where I've pulled up my autumn caulis if that makes sense. Things finish / start at different times and I don't want to wait until my bed is totally empty (very few only have one type of crop in there) so I think of rotation as more of a gentle flow rather than a stop / start thing.

[Bill HH]

It is not allways possible to rotate crops, different thing do better in different places on your plot so I wouldnt get stressed about this. I have known people grow the same thing in one place for 15 years. If you had a nasty disease (the plant not you) then maybe you would have to, or stop growing that particular plant for a couple of seasons.

[Two_Sheds]

my onions go somewhere that hasn't had onions in the previous year.

Whereas my onions stay in the same bed every year

(I have white rot all over the plot. Caliente Mustard is treating it, but to make life easier for myself I'm confining the alliums to one quarter of the allotment, rather than trying to treat the whole lot).

[Chippy Minton]

I'm one of the moving to the next plot brigade. If I'm eating it next year it has to be in the correct plot for that year.

I never thought I had OCD until I took up this growing lark, shallots in military rows

[Snadger]

There is basically 'true crop rotation' where you never follow like with like.There is also annual crop rotation where you can follow like with like within a given annual cycle.

I practice true crop rotation because to follow like with like at any time of the year is asking for trouble both pest and nutrient wise.

Some vegetable growers seem to grow certain crops (mainly thinking of leeks,onions and runner beans) in the same area every year. This is usually because the area is heavily mucked and sometimes even the top soil is removed for the winter and replaced in the spring with the addition of various concoctions and potions.
Allium white rot and clubroot are just two of the fungi that can persist in the soil for numerous years and play havoc wiith crop rotation, even though these are the two main problems we as gardeners are trying to prevent by crop rotation.

[Snadger]

Whereas my onions stay in the same bed every year

(I have white rot all over the plot. Caliente Mustard is treating it, but to make life easier for myself I'm confining the alliums to one quarter of the allotment, rather than trying to treat the whole lot).

Is the Caliente working against the whiterot? I have had white rot all over my plot in the past but only lost about 2% of my crop to it this year. Whether this is because of the summer we've had or the onion sets were 'cleaner' or it has run its course? I'm not too sure!

[Aberdeenplotter]

The object of rotation is not just to avoid disease although that is vitally important as growing the same crop year on year on the same area of ground allows a build up of the pests and diseases that lead to a reduction in yield or perhaps even a total loss of crop. Rotation also allows the grower to add fym or compost to the crops that need it which will be partially exhausted by the time the crop is lifted leaving a residue available for the next crop which may not be able to be grown in fresh manure/compost. The end result is that after a few years, the soil in the whole vegetable plot will have been improved and there should have been no opportunity for a build up of disease.

Having said that, we all have to compromise and sometimes we can't avoid following crop type with the same crop type but that should not be fatal provided it is only for a couple of seasons.

The folly of not practicing crop rotation was demonstrated in the United States where grain crops were grown year on year on year on year and the end result was the soil structure was eroded to such an extent that the soil simply blew away in the wind.

It's nonsense to say the introduction of granular fertilisers has reduced the need for rotation.

[Penellype]

There are plenty of good reasons for crop rotaion - one not mentioned above is the use of legumes (peas, beans or even clover) to fix nitrogen in the soil. Potatoes and root crops break up the soil making it easier to work whereas brassicas are usually planted firmly which compacts the soil. Growing the same crops over and over in the same place not only encourages disease, but can result in the soil becoming short of particular nutrients if the crop is particularly greedy for something like magnesium. Rotation balances all of this and the soil is much healthier as a result.

However, all of this is very nice, but not all of the garden is the same. My vegetable plot consists of 2 very different areas. One part was a patio until a couple of years ago, and the soil is full of sand and drains very fast. It is also in full sun in the summer. The other part (the older veg garden) is in deep shade and the soil is heavy clay, parts of which are prone to waterlogging. You simply can't grow tomatoes or onions in the old part, and leafy veg soon wilt in the new part. So I do the best I can, but I can't avoid planting tomatoes in at least some of the places where they were last year.

[zazen999]

There are plenty of good reasons for crop rotaion - one not mentioned above is the use of legumes (peas, beans or even clover) to fix nitrogen in the soil.Potatoes and root crops break up the soil

Legumes do not fix nitrogen in the soil if you crop from the plants. They hold nitrogen which they then use themselves when making peas. Potatoes only break up the soil because you have to dig the potatoes out.

Unless there is a good reason to rotate; and that reason is mainly due to diseases; not following like with like is a decent enough method, you don't have to have a full on rotation on a small space like an allotment.

[horticultural_hobbit]

I try and use the 'don't use the same thing in the same place' approach too. Getting difficult, as I have previously plugged in onions, garlic and shallots nearly every where. I have to consult my sketches to see where I can put them next. At least with the new half plot, I have a better idea as to where I can put things.